WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.520 Welcome to the Cold Case Christianity broadcast. 00:03.040 --> 00:06.920 The only Christian case making program hosted by a cold case homicide detective. 00:07.620 --> 00:07.780 J. 00:07.860 --> 00:11.400 Warner Wallace has been investigating cold case murders in Los Angeles County for 00:11.400 --> 00:12.180 over a decade. 00:12.740 --> 00:15.980 His work has been featured on Fox News, Court TV and Dateline. 00:17.300 --> 00:21.280 For more information about Jim's work and the case for Christianity, please visit 00:21.280 --> 00:23.040 coldcasechristianity.com. 00:23.400 --> 00:25.000 Now, here's your host, J. 00:25.140 --> 00:25.740 Warner Wallace. 00:27.280 --> 00:29.460 Well, thanks for joining us at Cold Case Christianity. 00:29.700 --> 00:30.180 I'm J. 00:30.260 --> 00:30.780 Warner Wallace. 00:31.080 --> 00:36.020 Today, we're going to do what I predict will be the most watched episode of our 00:36.020 --> 00:39.200 small show in the history of our short show. 00:39.660 --> 00:43.280 And I know that because we're going to talk about material that is actually the 00:43.280 --> 00:47.700 most popular material at coldcasechristianity.com. 00:47.860 --> 00:51.600 Now, if you visited our website, you know we put lots of information there 00:51.600 --> 00:54.820 about making the case for God's existence from science and philosophy, about making 00:54.820 --> 00:58.700 the case for the reliability of Scripture based on a cold case detective approach 00:58.700 --> 01:00.660 toward the actual Gospels. 01:01.200 --> 01:05.740 And this particular article that I posted years ago, well, maybe about a year and a 01:05.740 --> 01:11.680 half ago, really has been the most visited article at our website by a long measure. 01:12.140 --> 01:16.400 As a matter of fact, if I check my statistics and the activity at the website 01:16.400 --> 01:21.280 at any given time, there's always somebody, two, three, four people reading 01:21.280 --> 01:21.980 this article. 01:22.480 --> 01:25.020 And we're going to be talking about it because I think it's of interest to both 01:25.020 --> 01:31.920 skeptics and believers who wonder, is there any evidence for Christianity 01:31.920 --> 01:34.040 outside of the Bible? 01:34.140 --> 01:39.600 Is there any evidence for the existence of Jesus outside the Bible? 01:39.660 --> 01:41.040 So I've got everything staged here. 01:41.180 --> 01:45.980 You should see my desk, it's filled with computer monitor screens, all of which 01:45.980 --> 01:46.980 have contained information. 01:47.240 --> 01:53.960 We're going to try today to go through the evidence for Jesus outside of the Bible 01:53.960 --> 01:59.380 from ancient sources as a way to kind of make a case for the historicity of Jesus. 01:59.480 --> 02:02.340 But before I do that, and we're going to do it in two different groups, 02:02.760 --> 02:09.600 both unfriendly pagan, either Greek or Roman or Syrian sources. 02:09.860 --> 02:13.840 And then we'll also do it from unfriendly Jewish sources, which are kind of in a 02:13.840 --> 02:14.460 separate category. 02:14.960 --> 02:15.940 So we'll do that today. 02:16.020 --> 02:19.760 But before I start, I want to talk about a couple of issues that I think are raised 02:19.760 --> 02:21.480 by even asking this question. 02:21.560 --> 02:25.820 When someone asks you, is there any evidence for Jesus outside of scripture? 02:26.560 --> 02:31.420 If you really stop and think about it, that question wouldn't even be asked if 02:31.420 --> 02:36.040 they took the gospels as serious historical accounts. 02:36.600 --> 02:38.580 Clearly when someone says, you know, that's great. 02:38.740 --> 02:42.040 I see what it says in the gospels and in the New Testament about Jesus. 02:42.200 --> 02:45.220 But do you have anything outside of scripture? 02:45.940 --> 02:48.260 Well, what they're really saying is, I don't trust that your scripture is 02:48.260 --> 02:48.620 accurate. 02:48.720 --> 02:50.900 And I don't trust that it can even be called history in any way. 02:51.480 --> 02:53.000 And that's what we're going to talk about today. 02:53.080 --> 02:57.880 I think that realistically, that's why I wrote Cold Case Christianity, was in an 02:57.880 --> 03:00.740 effort to say, well, why would we think that this is not reliable eyewitness 03:00.740 --> 03:01.220 testimony? 03:01.660 --> 03:05.920 Why would we think that accounts don't include the accurate observations of 03:05.920 --> 03:07.540 people who actually knew Jesus? 03:08.360 --> 03:12.480 And I think if you're saying, well, I can only accept versions of the Jesus 03:12.480 --> 03:18.780 story written by those people who were not friends of Jesus, that's a silly approach 03:18.780 --> 03:19.160 to take. 03:19.200 --> 03:21.060 I've talked about it in the past here on this show. 03:21.260 --> 03:23.320 I've talked about it in my public speaking engagements. 03:23.580 --> 03:28.060 But the reality of it is, is that the people who knew Jesus best, who can give 03:28.060 --> 03:31.500 us the kind of intimate details that are available to us in the New Testament 03:31.500 --> 03:35.080 Gospels, they became part of the inner circle of Jesus. 03:35.720 --> 03:41.180 And in the end, they became Christians, Christ followers, based on what they saw 03:41.180 --> 03:43.100 Jesus do for all those years. 03:43.740 --> 03:45.540 And then they wrote an account. 03:46.060 --> 03:48.520 So for example, you might say, well, you know, I don't trust that the 03:48.520 --> 03:51.800 Gospel of John's reliable because, you know, John was a disciple of John the 03:51.800 --> 03:54.800 Baptist, and he was kind of a friend of the movement. 03:55.140 --> 03:59.200 And at least in the sense of kind of expecting the coming Messiah that John the 03:59.200 --> 03:59.920 Baptist foretold. 03:59.960 --> 04:00.420 Okay, fine. 04:00.660 --> 04:01.660 Let's kick him out then. 04:02.180 --> 04:06.140 And I don't trust, you know, that, that, you know, Peter giving the account 04:06.140 --> 04:08.600 to Mark, which is now in Mark's Gospel. 04:08.820 --> 04:11.320 He was kind of like John, you know, a disciple of John. 04:11.440 --> 04:12.060 Okay, fine. 04:12.700 --> 04:13.660 But what do you do with Matthew? 04:14.440 --> 04:18.440 Matthew's a guy who was named Levi, who was a tax collector, who was no friend 04:18.440 --> 04:21.220 of the Christian movement, really no friend of anybody. 04:21.320 --> 04:25.740 As a matter of fact, most people who knew him did not like him, given his occupation 04:25.740 --> 04:26.620 as a tax collector. 04:27.500 --> 04:30.880 And Jesus finds him, not as part of the discipleship of John the Baptist, 04:31.000 --> 04:34.420 or not a part of any friend group, and he brings him into the fold. 04:34.540 --> 04:39.900 And after three years of watching what Jesus did, Matthew became a believer and 04:39.900 --> 04:40.800 then wrote an account. 04:41.340 --> 04:44.260 But he doesn't start off trying, you know, in other words, to say that this 04:44.260 --> 04:47.000 is, in many ways, you could argue this is an unfriendly account. 04:47.100 --> 04:50.460 At least, initially, this is not somebody who was a friend of Jesus. 04:50.640 --> 04:54.420 He became a believer of Jesus based on what he saw. 04:54.800 --> 04:59.580 And it's very different to argue that somebody's writing something based on some 04:59.580 --> 05:04.700 pre-existing bias, or simply just based on what they saw, that then turned them into 05:04.700 --> 05:05.180 a believer. 05:05.580 --> 05:09.440 So, the problem we have with the ancient accounts is all of those folks, 05:09.520 --> 05:14.000 whether they were initially friends of Christianity or not, initially were 05:14.000 --> 05:17.300 expecting the coming Messiah based on what John the Baptist had told them. 05:17.800 --> 05:22.900 Or otherwise, anyone who knew Jesus well enough to write an account ended up 05:22.900 --> 05:23.560 becoming... 05:23.560 --> 05:26.880 now, you might say, well, boy, I wish that the Gospel of Judas was 05:26.880 --> 05:27.700 actually... 05:27.700 --> 05:28.880 you know, there is a Gospel of Judas. 05:29.020 --> 05:30.140 It's just a very late... 05:30.820 --> 05:32.940 you know, it's not a true gospel. 05:33.140 --> 05:37.240 It's written very late by people who didn't even know much about the truth of 05:37.240 --> 05:40.260 Jesus, other than what they had read in the reliable gospels. 05:40.860 --> 05:44.720 And so, but he would be the one person, I guess you could say, Judas, if he had 05:44.720 --> 05:47.380 actually written an account before hanging himself. 05:47.860 --> 05:50.700 He would be the one person you could say, well, this is no friend of Jesus, 05:51.300 --> 05:53.280 but he did write a story about Jesus. 05:53.540 --> 05:56.260 Well, it turns out his story is included in the Gospel of Matthew. 05:56.680 --> 06:01.760 And the reality is that Matthew was just a stranger to Jesus, who became a follower, 06:02.140 --> 06:05.020 wrote an account because of what he saw. 06:05.340 --> 06:09.680 So, the first thing I want to clarify is that most of the time, when I'm asked for 06:09.680 --> 06:13.500 evidence for Jesus outside of the Gospels, what they're really saying is, 06:13.560 --> 06:14.320 I don't trust the Gospels. 06:14.660 --> 06:16.000 And I would say, okay, fine. 06:16.120 --> 06:17.720 Then let's put the Gospels to the test. 06:17.880 --> 06:22.420 That four-part template that I often use with eyewitnesses, that's what I did to 06:22.420 --> 06:24.420 decide if I could trust what the Gospels said. 06:24.440 --> 06:29.560 But even if you didn't have the Gospels, even if you didn't have a single Christian 06:29.560 --> 06:34.380 document of the Church Fathers or anybody else, and all you had were the earliest 06:34.380 --> 06:39.400 statements of non-believers, you would know an awful lot about Jesus. 06:39.560 --> 06:45.080 And this is why even ardent skeptics like Bart Ehrman, who rejects Christianity, 06:45.540 --> 06:48.900 he still would argue, though, for the historicity of Jesus, that he was a real 06:48.900 --> 06:52.080 person who lived based on the kind of evidence we're going to talk about today. 06:52.180 --> 06:57.080 One last thing, we're going to use accounts that are as close to the life of 06:57.080 --> 06:58.060 Jesus as possible. 06:58.200 --> 07:02.260 But you might notice that some of these are, all of these are obviously after the 07:02.260 --> 07:05.720 resurrection, after the crucifixion, after the death and resurrection of Jesus. 07:06.460 --> 07:10.460 So you might say, well, I can't... I'm looking for something that's so ancient, 07:11.060 --> 07:17.380 it co-dates, it co-existed with the Gospels, or it was part of the earliest 07:17.380 --> 07:18.420 stories of Jesus. 07:18.460 --> 07:19.620 A couple of things about that. 07:21.220 --> 07:25.260 First of all, the Gospels themselves were not written immediately. 07:25.760 --> 07:28.740 They were written as the disciples realized they were going to be dying and 07:28.740 --> 07:30.920 not being able to transfer the story orally. 07:30.920 --> 07:32.860 And now these Gospels began to get written. 07:33.300 --> 07:36.720 So we have a gap of time before we have the accounts that are in the scripture. 07:37.740 --> 07:43.020 But in addition to that, if you were to ask me today, if I was to do a show 07:43.020 --> 07:48.680 talking about the history of Abraham Lincoln, and I was to tell you all the 07:48.680 --> 07:53.760 stories about Abraham, and then a thousand years from now, you discovered this little 07:53.760 --> 07:57.920 video, and you had no other information about Abraham Lincoln. 07:58.220 --> 08:02.860 You didn't have the sources that I am referencing, the sources that I am 08:02.860 --> 08:05.180 thinking about as I'm telling you about Abraham Lincoln. 08:05.720 --> 08:08.400 You might be inclined to say, well, then I can't believe in Abraham Lincoln, 08:08.500 --> 08:13.260 because I only have the word of Jim Wallace 150 years after the man was dead. 08:13.480 --> 08:18.660 But clearly I'm close enough to the action to be able to source back the information 08:18.660 --> 08:22.980 to Abraham Lincoln and determine that the story of Abraham Lincoln is historically 08:22.980 --> 08:23.780 reliable. 08:24.280 --> 08:27.960 Now I will tell you about it being only 150 years separated from it, not even that 08:27.960 --> 08:32.360 far separated from people who actually wrote about Abraham Lincoln who died later 08:32.360 --> 08:32.760 on. 08:32.900 --> 08:34.860 Some of them died in the early 20th century. 08:35.360 --> 08:39.820 So these sources describing Abraham Lincoln are still apparently available to 08:39.820 --> 08:39.920 me. 08:40.100 --> 08:44.800 Now when I discover an ancient account, say it's Greek or it's Roman, and it's 08:44.800 --> 08:48.660 following the life of Jesus by 30, 40, 50, let's say even 100 years, 08:49.420 --> 08:54.000 we need to give it the same kind of consideration you would give my statement 08:54.000 --> 08:59.400 about Abraham Lincoln given that I apparently have access to resources that I 08:59.400 --> 09:00.520 am referring to. 09:01.180 --> 09:07.120 And I'm speaking to you today in 2015 as somebody who is committed to the story of 09:07.120 --> 09:10.040 Abraham Lincoln as though it's historically reliable, because I happen to 09:10.040 --> 09:13.400 still have access to the sources that demonstrate for me that it's historically 09:13.400 --> 09:13.860 reliable. 09:14.060 --> 09:18.180 And even if you don't have what I had in order to determine the reliability of 09:18.180 --> 09:21.840 Abraham Lincoln, you ought to listen to my story and give it some weight. 09:22.340 --> 09:25.820 Now we're going to do the same thing with early stories in the first century, 09:25.960 --> 09:28.640 second century, about Jesus. 09:28.780 --> 09:31.360 And although they may follow the story of Jesus for some period of time, 09:31.660 --> 09:35.680 the people who were not Christians who wrote about Jesus apparently were 09:35.680 --> 09:39.440 determined and were committed to the fact that Jesus really lived, because they 09:39.440 --> 09:41.260 wrote about him as though he did really live. 09:41.460 --> 09:45.560 And like me, with my connection to Abraham Lincoln, they had some connection to 09:45.560 --> 09:46.700 sources about Jesus. 09:47.300 --> 09:49.580 And that's where we will begin our study. 09:49.720 --> 09:51.920 And we'll start right after the break. 09:53.100 --> 09:57.480 Need a speaker for your next conference, retreat, training seminar, or church 09:57.480 --> 09:57.860 service? 09:58.440 --> 10:02.460 Jim travels around the country, making the case for the existence of God, 10:02.820 --> 10:05.580 the deity of Jesus, and the reliability of the Bible. 10:06.100 --> 10:09.660 He'd love to partner with you to create a powerful, transformational training 10:09.660 --> 10:10.320 experience. 10:10.760 --> 10:14.800 Just visit the Cold Case Christianity website and click the Book Me tab. 10:15.360 --> 10:18.680 You'll find everything you need to know there, including a list of Jim's speaking 10:18.680 --> 10:22.800 topics, promotional materials, Jim's speaking calendar, and a link to 10:22.800 --> 10:25.020 connect with our team so we can book your event. 10:28.860 --> 10:34.300 Okay, we're going to start with what I would call unfriendly pagan or 10:34.300 --> 10:35.980 non-Christian sources. 10:36.280 --> 10:40.240 Now my wife, for example, when she saw I was doing this and has read some of my 10:40.240 --> 10:43.640 more recent writing in the next book, for example, she's my editor, she said, 10:43.740 --> 10:45.140 why do you call these folks unfriendly? 10:45.220 --> 10:48.520 Well, because I think it's important for us to recognize that the complaint that's 10:48.520 --> 10:53.420 typically leveled is that you are trusting your friendly sources, Gospels. 10:54.040 --> 10:57.780 Let's take a look at what unfriendly sources, in other words, non-believers, 10:57.940 --> 10:59.320 would say about Jesus. 10:59.700 --> 11:00.660 And that's what we're going to do. 11:00.700 --> 11:06.040 And we're going to start with an ancient Greek historian of the name of Thallus. 11:06.560 --> 11:11.600 Thallus was somebody who wrote, and I'm going to be referring to my notes 11:11.600 --> 11:12.380 here as I go along. 11:12.500 --> 11:16.840 By the way, this article in its entirety is called Is There Any Evidence for Jesus 11:16.840 --> 11:17.720 Outside the Bible? 11:17.880 --> 11:22.880 And you can find it by simply looking and use the search engine, the search bar at 11:22.880 --> 11:24.940 coldcasechristianity.com. 11:25.060 --> 11:27.680 Okay, that being said, we're looking at Thallus here. 11:27.800 --> 11:29.420 He is a non-Christian source. 11:29.720 --> 11:31.260 His source is pretty ancient. 11:31.860 --> 11:35.540 And we don't have a lot of Thallus, we don't have anything really from Thallus 11:35.540 --> 11:36.000 originally. 11:36.140 --> 11:41.920 What we have are pieces, fragments of the work of Thallus that are delivered to us 11:41.920 --> 11:43.460 by other ancient sources. 11:43.940 --> 11:47.820 I don't think there's any reason though to just to not believe that these are 11:47.820 --> 11:52.800 authentic quotes from Thallus because most of those sources that are quoting Thallus 11:52.800 --> 11:54.560 are not friendly to Thallus. 11:54.740 --> 11:57.860 And they're quoting Thallus in order to argue about what he said. 11:57.860 --> 12:01.580 If you were going to try to pull the wool over my eyes, you would simply lie about 12:01.580 --> 12:03.560 what Thallus said and make him agree with you. 12:03.920 --> 12:08.160 But if you're going to embarrassingly write about his disagreement with you, 12:08.340 --> 12:11.300 I think there's probably a good reason to believe that he actually did disagree with 12:11.300 --> 12:11.460 you. 12:11.760 --> 12:16.120 And so we have an ancient source from Julius Africanus in which he's going to 12:16.120 --> 12:20.280 quote something that Thallus writes about very early in history. 12:20.400 --> 12:26.960 You can see dating here right around the 50s, 60s of the first century. 12:27.480 --> 12:29.020 And here is what he writes. 12:29.340 --> 12:31.740 Again, he is writing about Jesus. 12:31.920 --> 12:37.400 He's also writing about a specific passage, a specific event related to 12:37.400 --> 12:41.700 Jesus, the crucifixion and the darkness and the earthquake that occurred at the 12:41.700 --> 12:42.280 crucifixion. 12:42.500 --> 12:43.780 Let's take a look at what he has to say. 12:44.120 --> 12:45.520 I've got it here on the screen for you. 12:45.920 --> 12:50.380 On the whole world there pressed a most fierce fearful darkness as at the point of 12:50.380 --> 12:55.100 the crucifixion and the rocks were rent by an earthquake and many places in Judea and 12:55.100 --> 12:56.620 other districts were thrown down. 12:56.780 --> 13:01.640 This darkness, Thallus, this is Julius Africanus now describing to Thallus in the 13:01.640 --> 13:04.880 third book of his history calls, as it appears to me without reason, 13:05.280 --> 13:06.320 an eclipse of the sun. 13:06.460 --> 13:11.420 So Julius Africanus is arguing that Thallus when writing about this darkness 13:11.420 --> 13:17.020 that occurred at the crucifixion is attributing it to an eclipse of the sun. 13:17.520 --> 13:18.360 An eclipse of the sun. 13:18.440 --> 13:22.060 Now that's interesting because what you have to do in order... you might say, 13:22.140 --> 13:23.560 well look, this doesn't tell us much. 13:23.600 --> 13:24.240 It doesn't. 13:24.440 --> 13:27.900 But it tells us that in the earliest source here from Thallus that Thallus 13:27.900 --> 13:32.040 believes that Jesus was in fact a historical character who was crucified and 13:32.040 --> 13:36.140 at the point of his crucifixion there was a great darkness and earthquake but the 13:36.140 --> 13:38.740 darkness was caused by an eclipse of the sun. 13:38.800 --> 13:43.380 He may explain it a different way but he has to reluctantly back into several 13:43.380 --> 13:48.240 details including the life of Jesus, the crucifixion, and the darkness at the 13:48.240 --> 13:51.260 crucifixion in order to make any claim against Jesus. 13:51.360 --> 13:56.100 You get some data from this early non-Christian source. 13:56.200 --> 13:56.900 Let's go to another one. 13:57.200 --> 13:59.080 This is Cornelius Tacitus. 13:59.900 --> 14:04.220 Tacitus is... I've written a lot about Tacitus on the website on this page. 14:04.780 --> 14:12.000 He basically wrote the annals for Emperor Vespasian and Vespasian wanted to know a 14:12.000 --> 14:14.440 little bit detail about what happened under Nero's reign. 14:14.660 --> 14:20.360 So what you have here is a statement written by Tacitus who is explaining in 14:20.360 --> 14:27.980 the annals he wrote what Nero... who Nero blamed for the destruction of Rome. 14:28.260 --> 14:30.440 Let's take a look at what he writes here. 14:31.240 --> 14:35.140 This is Tacitus writing, consequently to get rid of the report Nero fastened the 14:35.140 --> 14:40.280 guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for called what? 14:40.760 --> 14:42.560 Called Christians by the populace. 14:43.080 --> 14:47.760 Crustus from whom the name had its origin suffered the extreme penalty during the 14:47.760 --> 14:53.000 reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procreators Pontius Pilatus and a most 14:53.000 --> 14:57.120 mischievous superstition thus checked for the moment again broke out not only in 14:57.120 --> 15:01.000 Judea the first source of the evil but even in Rome where all things hideous and 15:01.000 --> 15:04.160 shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. 15:04.880 --> 15:06.860 Sounds like Rome was a really hopping place at the time. 15:07.560 --> 15:08.860 But here's what this does tell us. 15:09.180 --> 15:13.520 It tells us that there is a group who followed a man named Christ, Christus, 15:13.880 --> 15:15.860 who called themselves Christians. 15:16.060 --> 15:16.900 Okay, makes sense. 15:17.220 --> 15:21.840 And that this man suffered the extreme penalty was crucified under the reign of 15:21.840 --> 15:25.880 of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procreators who guess who Pontius Pilatus 15:25.880 --> 15:29.540 and that this mischievous superstition what could that be? 15:31.100 --> 15:34.380 It seems to me that what might be reasonable here is that there's a 15:34.380 --> 15:36.400 superstition related to the resurrection. 15:36.940 --> 15:40.420 Now he's not going to say that here but it does appear this is an early account that 15:40.420 --> 15:44.280 at least tangentially infers something about the resurrection and we're pretty 15:44.280 --> 15:45.180 early in time. 15:45.280 --> 15:47.440 We're late first century early second century. 15:48.240 --> 15:52.120 And this is the source of the evil was obviously here in Judea. 15:52.400 --> 15:56.420 Lots of details about location, about leadership, about government, 15:56.660 --> 16:00.040 about the way he was executed, about the names of his followers. 16:00.680 --> 16:06.580 Lots even of hinting at the resurrection here just from this brief non-christian, 16:07.460 --> 16:10.520 hostile, unfriendly ancient source. 16:10.900 --> 16:12.460 So we know some things about Jesus now. 16:12.540 --> 16:16.080 If we lost everything else we'd know some details now, wouldn't we, about who Jesus 16:16.080 --> 16:16.440 is. 16:16.460 --> 16:17.780 Let's go to another source. 16:17.880 --> 16:21.380 We're going to go to a Syrian philosopher named Marabar Serapion. 16:21.880 --> 16:27.480 And what Serapion does is he's writing to his son, describing to his son the fate of 16:27.480 --> 16:28.520 a number of philosophers. 16:28.520 --> 16:31.220 He's writing, you know, in the late first century, early second century. 16:31.560 --> 16:36.980 And he's writing about what happened to several leaders of several movements. 16:37.100 --> 16:38.100 Let's read what he has to say. 17:00.680 --> 17:05.760 So here we have Jesus described, without a name, as the wise king. 17:05.860 --> 17:10.260 He was, in fact, that's what was the label that was put over his cross. 17:10.820 --> 17:16.780 The wise king of the Jews who was killed and then the kingdom was, the temple was 17:16.780 --> 17:17.860 destroyed in 70 AD. 17:18.400 --> 17:22.940 And then on top of it all, there is some sense here that the teaching of this wise 17:22.940 --> 17:25.480 king continued on with his followers. 17:25.980 --> 17:31.600 Some more data we have related to Jesus coming from non-Christian pagan sources, 17:31.860 --> 17:33.060 hostile sources. 17:33.240 --> 17:34.420 That's what the most important part is. 17:34.440 --> 17:35.180 Let's go to Phlegon. 17:35.660 --> 17:39.000 Let me scroll down here on my article on the website. 17:39.760 --> 17:44.120 This is somebody who is very similar to Phallus in the sense that we don't have 17:44.120 --> 17:45.960 the original work of Phlegon. 17:46.060 --> 17:49.920 We have to trust another ancient source to get what Phlegon said. 17:50.020 --> 17:53.980 And typically, the ancient source that's quoting Phlegon is kind of debating it 17:53.980 --> 17:54.680 with Phlegon. 17:54.760 --> 17:58.660 So that's why I think there's some credibility to what the ancient source is 17:58.660 --> 17:59.040 saying. 17:59.140 --> 18:02.600 If you're writing to a group that doesn't know who the sources are, you might as 18:02.600 --> 18:03.780 well have this guy agree with you. 18:03.880 --> 18:06.100 But instead, he simply says it as it is. 18:06.340 --> 18:10.460 Phlegon offers a position that is somehow different than the other ancient source. 18:10.860 --> 18:13.640 So he's going to mention this ancient historian. 18:13.660 --> 18:16.040 He's going to mention something about Jesus. 18:16.040 --> 18:17.620 We'll talk about it here on the screen. 18:18.100 --> 18:19.400 I've got a couple of quotes. 18:19.600 --> 18:21.700 Now, there's a lot more that I could add to this. 18:21.880 --> 18:26.660 And on the website, there's just a ton of really more information we're just not 18:26.660 --> 18:28.120 going to be able to cover here in 28 minutes. 18:28.240 --> 18:31.120 So please visit that article if you want to learn more. 18:31.200 --> 18:34.160 But let's just talk about a couple of quotes from Phlegon being quoted by 18:34.160 --> 18:34.540 Origen. 18:35.600 --> 18:39.800 Now, Phlegon, in the 13th or 14th book, I think, of his chronicles, not only 18:39.800 --> 18:44.400 ascribed to Jesus a knowledge of future events, but also testified that the result 18:44.400 --> 18:46.260 corresponded to his predictions. 18:46.480 --> 18:49.960 So here you have somebody in the ancient world, a relatively early, late first 18:49.960 --> 18:52.840 century, early second century, who is saying that, hey, this guy, 18:52.920 --> 18:55.340 Jesus, he also was a predictor of future events. 18:55.380 --> 18:57.800 And these things actually turn out the way he predicted them. 18:58.380 --> 18:58.760 Interesting. 18:58.920 --> 19:02.480 Now, also you have this quote, Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance 19:02.480 --> 19:06.060 to himself, but that he arose after death and exhibited the marks of his punishment 19:06.060 --> 19:08.720 and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails. 19:08.940 --> 19:13.160 Now, remember, this is not an eyewitness who saw this. 19:13.400 --> 19:14.720 I'm not making that claim. 19:14.940 --> 19:18.740 That any of these ancient sources that we're talking about today are, 19:18.920 --> 19:20.280 in fact, eyewitnesses. 19:20.720 --> 19:22.020 That's what's in the Gospels. 19:22.760 --> 19:26.300 And if you're wondering, well, I can't trust the Gospels, you're not 19:26.300 --> 19:29.520 being fair to the Gospels because you haven't even tested them by tossing them 19:29.520 --> 19:30.360 out the way you have. 19:30.600 --> 19:31.900 You need to be able to test them. 19:31.960 --> 19:33.500 That's what cold case Christianity does. 19:33.620 --> 19:38.400 But the point here is that these are ancient sources who, if nothing else, 19:38.500 --> 19:43.040 affirm for us the information about Jesus that's already circulating. 19:43.320 --> 19:44.780 It's already circulating in the culture. 19:45.060 --> 19:49.360 It's what's being said about Jesus, much the same way I might report today 19:49.360 --> 19:51.900 about what has been said about Abraham Lincoln. 19:52.480 --> 19:55.240 So, this is what you're hearing in the earliest sources. 19:55.680 --> 19:59.320 So, here you have more data, his accurate ability to predict the future, 19:59.420 --> 20:03.260 the fact that he rose after the dead and exhibited the marks of his hands. 20:03.380 --> 20:07.880 Not all that unusual if you put this together with the Tacitus remark about 20:07.880 --> 20:09.500 this mischievous superstition. 20:09.560 --> 20:11.100 You start to see some parallels here. 20:11.100 --> 20:12.840 Let's do another one. 20:13.080 --> 20:14.760 Pliny the Younger. 20:15.780 --> 20:18.180 His real name is much more complicated. 20:18.340 --> 20:19.720 I actually wanted to pull it up for you here. 20:20.080 --> 20:22.760 Gaius Plinius Caecilius Secundus. 20:23.440 --> 20:26.880 And he was a lawyer, an author, a magistrate. 20:26.980 --> 20:33.160 He was somebody who was very well known by leadership in the Roman Empire. 20:33.260 --> 20:36.940 As a matter of fact, he writes a letter to Trajan, Emperor Trajan, in which he 20:36.940 --> 20:40.640 describes certain aspects of Christian followers. 20:41.080 --> 20:42.240 Now, this is later in history. 20:42.360 --> 20:46.200 We're now looking at a little bit later in history than the other sources in the 20:46.200 --> 20:51.920 sense that this, well at least this, his information is more about followers of 20:51.920 --> 20:54.480 Jesus and their religious community than anything else. 20:54.660 --> 20:57.860 But when you see what he says about the followers in their religious community, 20:57.960 --> 21:00.700 you get a chance to mine out some data about Jesus. 21:00.820 --> 21:01.260 Check it out. 21:01.800 --> 21:05.100 Pliny says, they, the Christians, were in the habit of meeting on a certain 21:05.100 --> 21:06.500 fixed day before it was light. 21:06.500 --> 21:12.060 And when they sang in alternate verses, a hymn to Christ as to a God and bound 21:12.060 --> 21:15.980 themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any 21:15.980 --> 21:20.960 fraud, theft, or adultery, never to falsify their word or deny a trust when 21:20.960 --> 21:22.640 they should be called upon to deliver it up. 21:23.120 --> 21:26.940 After which it was their custom to separate and then reassemble to partake of 21:26.940 --> 21:29.980 food, but food not of an ordinary kind and an innocent kind. 21:30.040 --> 21:34.560 Because there were other groups out there that were not partaking of food of an 21:34.560 --> 21:35.740 innocent or ordinary kind. 21:36.260 --> 21:39.420 Pliny is basically saying, hey, the Christians were this supper they would 21:39.420 --> 21:40.020 have together. 21:40.500 --> 21:45.680 Now, what you see here are certain early beliefs that Christians held, if nothing 21:45.680 --> 21:46.080 else. 21:47.200 --> 21:48.420 Is Jesus God? 21:48.620 --> 21:51.180 Did the earliest Christians think Jesus was God? 21:51.760 --> 21:52.960 It seems like he thinks they do. 21:53.540 --> 21:54.780 Pliny seems to report that. 21:55.180 --> 21:59.940 Also, you've got questions about how they represented certain teachings of their 21:59.940 --> 22:00.380 master. 22:00.860 --> 22:03.800 If you're wondering about the historical reliability, for example, the Sermon on 22:03.800 --> 22:07.860 the Mount or any of the moral ethical teaching of Jesus, you see some of it 22:07.860 --> 22:11.360 reflected here in the work of Pliny describing what the Christians believed. 22:11.600 --> 22:15.280 So you've got some more data about Jesus. 22:16.100 --> 22:16.880 Now, we'll take a break. 22:16.920 --> 22:19.680 When we come back, we're going to look at another source of information, 22:20.080 --> 22:25.700 which is not from pagan sources in the empire, Greek, Roman, or Syrian, 22:26.080 --> 22:27.680 but is instead from believers. 22:27.960 --> 22:30.400 Believers of Yahweh, but not Christian believers of Yahweh. 22:30.560 --> 22:34.240 We'll talk about the Jewish claims related to Jesus right after this. 22:35.560 --> 22:40.680 In addition to Jim's daily blog and weekly podcasts and videos, Jim continues to 22:40.680 --> 22:43.800 write books designed to help you become a better Christian Caseman. 22:55.900 --> 23:00.040 These resources will help you defend what you believe and share it with others. 23:05.300 --> 23:08.200 Connect with Cold Case Christianity on social media. 23:08.660 --> 23:12.860 Visit the Cold Case Christianity homepage and click the social media icons on the 23:12.860 --> 23:13.720 top right tool bar. 23:14.180 --> 23:18.540 Jim is active on Facebook and Twitter, posting the best apologetics articles from 23:18.540 --> 23:20.840 over 250 Christian blogs and websites. 23:21.860 --> 23:26.180 You'll also find links to Jim's Instagram, Pinterest, and Google Plus accounts, 23:26.400 --> 23:29.320 along with a link to the Cold Case Christianity YouTube page. 23:29.720 --> 23:33.860 Stay connected with Cold Case Christianity and become a better Christian Caseman. 23:36.800 --> 23:40.380 Okay, we're almost out of time, but I want to go through an ancient Jewish 23:40.380 --> 23:45.860 source related to the history of Jesus and the information related to Jesus. 23:46.020 --> 23:49.500 And that is somebody you may recognize, the Jewish, the ancient Jewish historian 23:49.500 --> 23:55.080 named Josephus, a very early historian commissioned to do a history of the Jews. 23:55.640 --> 23:59.640 And a lot more detail about that online and in my book, Cold Case Christianity. 23:59.640 --> 24:04.140 I'm going to show you a stripped version, which I think is a reliable version of the 24:04.140 --> 24:10.260 most ancient non-Christian record in Judaism about Jesus written by Josephus in 24:10.260 --> 24:10.880 his history. 24:11.140 --> 24:17.420 And here's around this time lived Jesus, a wise man, for he's a worker of amazing 24:17.420 --> 24:20.640 deeds and was a teacher of people who gladly accept the truth. 24:21.100 --> 24:23.280 He went over both many Jews and many Greeks. 24:23.680 --> 24:28.940 Pilate, when he heard him accused by leading men among us, condemned him to the 24:28.940 --> 24:29.280 cross. 24:29.440 --> 24:31.800 But those who had first loved him did not cease doing so. 24:32.160 --> 24:35.560 To this day, the tribe of Christians named after him has not disappeared. 24:36.080 --> 24:39.320 Now there are many kind of corrupted versions of the Josephus account. 24:39.320 --> 24:41.240 This account has been stripped of the corruption. 24:41.760 --> 24:45.460 And here you see that certain attributes of Jesus are once again affirmed. 24:45.520 --> 24:49.260 His miraculous deeds, the fact he was crucified under Pilate, the fact that the 24:49.260 --> 24:52.720 Jews led him to that crucifixion, the fact that his believers continued even 24:52.720 --> 24:54.620 though he was crucified. 24:55.240 --> 25:00.760 If you were to go back and reconstruct the story of Jesus, not using scripture or not 25:00.760 --> 25:05.020 using church fathers, not using anyone who's a Christian, just using the most 25:05.020 --> 25:07.020 ancient records we have. 25:07.300 --> 25:10.440 Now I want to include some details here from a couple of accounts I couldn't get 25:10.440 --> 25:12.820 to in 28 minutes that are on the website. 25:13.180 --> 25:18.620 This is what you would know about Jesus from the absolute bare minimum, 25:19.260 --> 25:21.960 from just the non-Christian accounts. 25:22.440 --> 25:25.640 You're going to get a lot of information about Jesus from non-Christians early. 25:26.040 --> 25:26.680 Here's what it says. 25:27.020 --> 25:30.060 Jesus, we would know from just the non-Christians in early history, 25:30.100 --> 25:31.700 was a real man who lived in history. 25:31.880 --> 25:33.580 He was reportedly born of a virgin. 25:33.740 --> 25:35.580 He had an earthly father who was a carpenter. 25:35.940 --> 25:38.260 He lived in Judea in the region known as Palestine. 25:38.660 --> 25:39.420 He was wise. 25:39.540 --> 25:40.180 He was righteous. 25:40.320 --> 25:44.260 His teaching was so influential that he developed a large following of Jewish and 25:44.260 --> 25:45.220 Gentile followers. 25:45.440 --> 25:49.800 He taught his disciples to live with the same virtue that he exhibited and his 25:49.800 --> 25:52.140 moral code was exceedingly high. 25:52.220 --> 25:54.860 But he was more than just a moral teacher. 25:55.120 --> 25:59.300 He possessed magical powers and had the ability to accurately predict the future. 25:59.300 --> 26:03.320 His supernatural acts and teachings persuaded many Jews to walk away from 26:03.320 --> 26:04.180 their Jewish beliefs. 26:04.700 --> 26:07.980 Jesus claimed to be God and his disciples readily accepted that claim. 26:08.080 --> 26:12.320 The Jewish leadership ultimately brought charges against Jesus based on his actions 26:12.320 --> 26:17.360 and his teaching and Pontius Pilate, during the reign of Tiberius Caesar, 26:17.740 --> 26:19.440 crucified and prosecuted him. 26:19.700 --> 26:23.420 There was an earthquake and darkness at the point of the execution and his 26:23.420 --> 26:27.360 followers, Jesus' followers, reported seeing him resurrected after the 26:27.360 --> 26:29.040 crucifixion, three days afterwards. 26:29.480 --> 26:33.880 However, even Jesus showed them his wounds. 26:34.660 --> 26:40.420 Not only that, his believers believed that the resurrection was a proof that Jesus 26:40.420 --> 26:41.560 was, in fact, the Messiah. 26:41.740 --> 26:43.060 They adopted his moral teaching. 26:43.380 --> 26:44.740 They lived their lives accordingly. 26:44.940 --> 26:47.520 They held their belief in his deity. 26:47.580 --> 26:50.420 They held firm to that, even though it meant they were going to suffer under the 26:50.420 --> 26:51.040 Roman rule. 26:51.300 --> 26:55.000 As a matter of fact, they were persecuted for their faith in All of that 26:55.000 --> 26:59.880 information, all of that history of Jesus and his followers, you would know if you 26:59.880 --> 27:01.540 never opened your Bible. 27:01.620 --> 27:05.180 You can get that from non-Christian sources in the first and early second 27:05.180 --> 27:05.640 century. 27:06.020 --> 27:07.100 That's pretty powerful. 27:07.380 --> 27:08.580 A lot more to be said about this. 27:08.640 --> 27:11.760 I'm afraid we're running out of time, but you can find out more at the website, 27:11.900 --> 27:13.020 coldcasechristianity.com. 27:13.020 --> 27:14.280 Scroll down, there are articles. 27:14.940 --> 27:18.820 Use the search engine there for evidence for Jesus outside the scriptures. 27:18.820 --> 27:22.880 I've also written quite a bit about this in the book, Cold Case Christianity. 27:23.320 --> 27:26.340 Wow, we covered a lot of information today and I hope it was helpful to you. 27:26.580 --> 27:29.520 See you here next week at Cold Case Christianity. 27:31.780 --> 27:34.480 Thanks for joining us at the Cold Case Christianity broadcast. 27:35.000 --> 27:38.740 If you're interested in more information about this week's topic, please visit 27:38.740 --> 27:40.480 coldcasechristianity.com. 27:40.960 --> 27:44.440 For a thorough investigation of the reliability of the New Testament Gospels 27:44.440 --> 27:48.260 in the case for Christianity, be sure to purchase Cold Case Christianity, 27:48.700 --> 27:51.780 a homicide detective investigates the claims of the Gospels. 27:52.180 --> 27:53.940 It's available wherever books are sold.