WEBVTT 00:24.220 --> 00:24.740 Hi, 01:23.430 --> 01:28.150 I'm Josh McDowell, and I'm sure glad you were all able to come out tonight. 01:28.650 --> 01:34.330 And what I want to do is just share briefly on one aspect of truth that I sure 01:34.330 --> 01:35.270 tried to refute. 01:35.870 --> 01:39.810 Kind of the background for what I share here was when I was a student in 01:39.810 --> 01:44.510 university, I ran into some professors and students whose lives were really 01:44.510 --> 01:45.130 different. 01:45.610 --> 01:49.730 And I remember one day I was sitting in the dormitory with them, and I asked them 01:49.730 --> 01:50.150 the question. 01:50.250 --> 01:53.430 I said, what makes your life so differently? 01:53.870 --> 01:57.150 And this one young lady looked at me and just said, Jesus Christ. 01:57.350 --> 01:58.590 And I just laughed. 01:58.830 --> 02:00.170 I thought that was a joke. 02:00.170 --> 02:01.910 And I said, don't give me that garbage. 02:02.210 --> 02:04.970 I'm fed up with religion, the church, the Bible, everything. 02:05.570 --> 02:08.810 And then I couldn't forget that these professors and students right there 02:08.810 --> 02:13.130 challenged me as a pre-law student, now get this, to intellectually to use my 02:13.130 --> 02:18.050 mind to examine the claims of Christ as the Son of God, and the Bible is the Word 02:18.050 --> 02:18.290 of God. 02:18.330 --> 02:19.330 Well, I thought that was a joke. 02:19.630 --> 02:22.710 Because I really thought that most Christians had two brains. 02:22.930 --> 02:25.210 One was lost, and the other was out looking for it. 02:25.550 --> 02:27.010 I really believed that. 02:27.410 --> 02:31.250 But they kept kind of irritating me with it all the time. 02:31.690 --> 02:34.310 And I remember I was at a water fountain, and one of the professors said to me, 02:34.470 --> 02:35.470 what's the matter, young man? 02:35.810 --> 02:37.390 Aren't you willing to be intellectually honest? 02:37.510 --> 02:38.050 That was it. 02:38.050 --> 02:39.950 I said, okay, I'll accept your challenge. 02:40.150 --> 02:42.130 But I didn't do it to prove anything. 02:42.450 --> 02:44.370 I did it to refute them. 02:44.730 --> 02:48.270 And the whole background of my first book, The New Evidence That Demands a Verdict, 02:48.430 --> 02:50.450 was to write a book against Christianity. 02:50.570 --> 02:52.970 I figured any fool could do that, and I'd qualify. 02:53.490 --> 02:56.730 And I left the university and traveled throughout the United States, England, 02:56.850 --> 03:00.850 the Middle East, gathering the evidence to write the book, and I had a problem. 03:00.850 --> 03:07.170 When I returned to the university, intellectually, I became convinced that 03:07.170 --> 03:10.070 the Bible was true, and that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. 03:10.130 --> 03:14.230 I'd come to the exact opposite conclusion of what I set out to prove. 03:15.030 --> 03:20.130 And one of the areas that I really knew that if I could refute it, I had my case 03:20.130 --> 03:20.350 won. 03:20.610 --> 03:23.730 And I could look those Christian professors and students right in the eyes 03:23.730 --> 03:25.850 and put them down with a clear conscience. 03:25.850 --> 03:28.130 And that's when it came to the Bible. 03:28.990 --> 03:32.570 I really thought this was a book written years after the time of Christ, 03:32.730 --> 03:36.430 way into the second century, and what people didn't like, they took out. 03:36.510 --> 03:40.150 What they did like, they added to it, and it looked like a mess put together by 03:40.150 --> 03:40.590 a committee. 03:40.990 --> 03:45.730 And I figured an intelligent, rational approach to it would totally satisfy my 03:45.730 --> 03:47.870 mind and refute it. 03:48.430 --> 03:50.250 Was I ever surprised. 03:50.750 --> 03:54.410 And what I'd like to do in our time together is just share with you some of 03:54.410 --> 03:59.570 the things that I found as an individual, as I set out to write my book against the 03:59.570 --> 04:04.290 scriptures, and I ended up not only acknowledging the scriptures as what I 04:04.290 --> 04:08.550 believe now is God's word, but I also ended up becoming a Christian against 04:08.550 --> 04:09.790 everything that I believed. 04:42.790 --> 04:50.910 I believe that most of it is, goes back to thousands of years, but on a whole, 04:51.430 --> 04:56.790 as each generation passed, there are different theories, and they do change the 04:56.790 --> 04:58.790 Bible every time they print it. 04:59.310 --> 04:59.790 No. 05:01.530 --> 05:02.950 What do you base that on? 05:02.970 --> 05:03.210 Why? 05:03.930 --> 05:03.930 Well, interpretation. 05:04.190 --> 05:08.510 I believe that everybody has to have put some of their opinion in it when it was 05:08.510 --> 05:09.110 interpreted. 05:11.090 --> 05:14.270 I don't believe so because there's a lot of different versions that are written, 05:14.370 --> 05:17.370 so it's hard to say probably which one is the true first version. 05:18.630 --> 05:20.850 Every religion itself is written in different versions. 05:22.870 --> 05:29.730 I think that the language that was written has been changed, altered, edited over the 05:29.730 --> 05:31.170 years, so there would be differences. 05:32.590 --> 05:36.330 I just think over time, over the years, the change is like anything else would be 05:36.330 --> 05:36.630 changed. 05:36.810 --> 05:37.630 It's not like playing telephone. 05:38.230 --> 05:38.970 It's all interpreted. 05:40.170 --> 05:43.610 And being that it wasn't written in English, I'm sure, I would only think that 05:43.610 --> 05:49.090 it would be translated basically to suit how people want it to be. 05:49.870 --> 05:55.270 I think it could be different because there's many changes that will be made 05:55.270 --> 06:00.150 that people cannot understand, and different changes that it will go 06:00.150 --> 06:05.510 through over time, that when things change, when the word passes, they pass 06:05.510 --> 06:07.230 differently from time to time. 06:08.510 --> 06:12.450 Well, if I tell you a story today, and you tell that story to someone else, 06:12.830 --> 06:17.070 and then that person tells it to someone else, and it goes and transcends hundreds 06:17.070 --> 06:19.830 and thousands of years, the story isn't the same at the end. 06:20.010 --> 06:22.590 It doesn't equal the same story that was originated. 06:22.830 --> 06:23.490 It doesn't matter. 06:26.690 --> 06:32.650 Um, really, I'm not sure because, you know, I wasn't like born back then, 06:32.770 --> 06:39.450 you know, so, unless it's like some kind of evidence where, you know, it probably 06:39.450 --> 06:40.990 is, it probably isn't, you know. 06:41.110 --> 06:42.850 It could be changed around a lot of times. 06:43.750 --> 06:46.930 I think some of it's the same, but then again, I think some of it's 06:46.930 --> 06:48.750 changed by man over time. 06:50.270 --> 06:56.050 I want to start by contexting the whole set of arguments. 06:56.850 --> 07:02.950 If you're talking to a young person today, say in a high school or university, 07:03.410 --> 07:07.390 and you make a statement that Jesus Christ is a truth, or the Bible is a truth, 07:07.610 --> 07:11.010 or Christianity is a truth, here's a phrase you'll hear. 07:11.330 --> 07:13.350 Well, you know, truth changes all the time. 07:13.790 --> 07:14.690 Oh, I hear that constantly. 07:14.690 --> 07:17.110 Truth changes all the time. 07:17.710 --> 07:19.430 And so, I'll respond, say, really? 07:19.830 --> 07:20.790 Give me an example. 07:21.410 --> 07:24.970 The number one example I hear, straight across, or the high school or 07:24.970 --> 07:28.490 university, is, well, people used to believe that the earth was flat, 07:28.690 --> 07:29.750 now they believe it's round. 07:30.450 --> 07:32.430 I said, that's an example that truth changes? 07:32.750 --> 07:33.330 Well, yes. 07:34.090 --> 07:35.350 I said, let me ask you two questions. 07:36.330 --> 07:39.690 When everybody thought the earth was flat, was it really round? 07:40.770 --> 07:44.330 And I've not had one person this day not say, yes, it was. 07:45.110 --> 07:48.910 Second question, when everybody came to believe the earth was round, had it always 07:48.910 --> 07:49.430 been round? 07:50.310 --> 07:51.030 Well, yes. 07:52.090 --> 07:52.710 Well, then, wait a minute. 07:53.170 --> 07:54.270 Truth didn't change. 07:54.970 --> 07:58.110 Your perspective of truth changed. 07:58.670 --> 08:00.690 The truth remained the same, the earth was round. 08:01.190 --> 08:02.470 Our perspective changed. 08:02.910 --> 08:03.970 And then I'll throw this out. 08:04.270 --> 08:08.950 What caused people to change their perspective from the earth being flat to 08:08.950 --> 08:09.830 the earth being round? 08:09.830 --> 08:15.190 And it's interesting, in almost every single focus group, university or high 08:15.190 --> 08:17.290 school students, they'll say something like this. 08:18.070 --> 08:22.050 Well, the evidence or testimony, experience. 08:22.430 --> 08:24.010 I said, that's right, testimony experience. 08:24.910 --> 08:29.330 Is when people would leave on the ships, the mothers, the wives, the children, 08:29.470 --> 08:33.050 the brothers, sisters, the family would go down to say goodbye to them. 08:33.110 --> 08:33.310 Why? 08:33.310 --> 08:37.510 They truly believed that they would fall off the end of the earth and they would 08:37.510 --> 08:40.370 never see their husband or their father, their kids again. 08:40.750 --> 08:43.510 And they kept going further and further and they kept thinking, they're going to 08:43.510 --> 08:44.390 fall off the edge of the earth. 08:44.590 --> 08:47.690 But they kept going further and further and they kept coming back. 08:48.130 --> 08:49.050 And they said, wait a minute. 08:49.750 --> 08:51.050 The earth must not be flat. 08:51.630 --> 08:52.710 There's no end to the earth. 08:53.410 --> 08:57.590 First was personal testimony and then second, most young people say, 08:57.710 --> 08:59.490 well, the evidence or the facts. 08:59.710 --> 09:00.550 And I'll say, that's right. 09:00.970 --> 09:03.010 They started to examine the evidence. 09:03.010 --> 09:05.370 They started to calculate with the stars and everything. 09:05.470 --> 09:06.030 They said, wait a minute. 09:06.430 --> 09:07.530 The earth isn't flat. 09:08.090 --> 09:09.730 There's a curvature to it. 09:09.950 --> 09:13.490 And then they would sail and they'd come all the way back around and say, 09:13.570 --> 09:14.430 the earth is not flat. 09:14.570 --> 09:15.870 It is round. 09:16.290 --> 09:19.250 It was testimony and the evidence, the facts. 09:20.050 --> 09:21.510 And then I correlate it this way. 09:21.630 --> 09:25.450 You know, I used to believe that the Bible was flat. 09:26.110 --> 09:27.290 Now I believe it's round. 09:28.390 --> 09:29.530 And what changed my opinion? 09:29.530 --> 09:30.550 Two things. 09:30.910 --> 09:32.030 Personal testimony. 09:33.190 --> 09:33.750 Experience. 09:34.330 --> 09:36.430 Second, I examined the evidence. 09:37.330 --> 09:41.710 And what I want to do, because we have a brief period of time, is just examine some 09:41.710 --> 09:42.670 of the evidence. 09:43.110 --> 09:45.510 And it will be a very brief presentation to it. 09:45.890 --> 09:50.530 But in the book that just came out, I spent the last four and a half years 09:50.530 --> 09:55.710 totally rewriting, updating with the evidence and everything, the old two 09:55.710 --> 09:59.090 volumes of Evidence and Demands a Verdict into the new Evidence and Demands a 09:59.090 --> 09:59.310 Verdict. 09:59.750 --> 10:03.150 And everything that I share is completely documented there. 10:04.310 --> 10:08.770 Now in the evidence, whenever you examine any book of history, doesn't matter if 10:08.770 --> 10:13.750 it's the Bible, whatever, any book of antiquity, to determine if it's 10:13.750 --> 10:17.550 historically accurate, authentic, if it has integrity to it, if it's 10:17.550 --> 10:20.270 accurate, you apply an historiography. 10:20.270 --> 10:24.970 And a part of any good historiography, the principles interpreting history, 10:25.090 --> 10:29.030 of studying history, in any good historiography is what's called the 10:29.030 --> 10:30.590 bibliographical test. 10:31.150 --> 10:35.010 And I remember one student spoke up and said, Oh, I knew you'd bring the Bible in. 10:35.190 --> 10:36.610 I said, I didn't say Bible. 10:38.150 --> 10:39.190 Bibliographical test. 10:40.030 --> 10:46.710 Now a bibliographical test will ask two questions of the manuscripts of any work. 10:47.090 --> 10:48.030 Now what is a manuscript? 10:48.030 --> 10:55.570 A manuscript, by definition, is a handwritten copy over against a printed 10:55.570 --> 10:56.010 copy. 10:56.210 --> 10:59.530 A handwritten copy over against a printed copy. 11:01.330 --> 11:05.870 And the question, the first question they ask of a manuscript, now why do they ask 11:05.870 --> 11:06.970 these questions of a manuscript? 11:07.770 --> 11:10.670 Because here is two issues that I struggled with. 11:11.250 --> 11:14.990 Why I needed a historiography, why I needed to study the historical 11:14.990 --> 11:16.650 background of the scriptures. 11:17.210 --> 11:19.450 Because there were two questions that haunted me. 11:20.050 --> 11:21.290 And I think they haunt a lot of people. 11:21.870 --> 11:22.990 The first question was this. 11:23.590 --> 11:27.430 Is what we have today called the Bible, and I'll look at only the New Testament 11:27.430 --> 11:31.930 today, is what we have in the New Testament what was written down 2,000 11:31.930 --> 11:32.430 years ago? 11:32.570 --> 11:33.790 I think that's an honest question. 11:34.470 --> 11:36.270 Or has it been changed? 11:36.490 --> 11:40.210 Like a lot of people say, and use it without documenting, Oh, it's been 11:40.210 --> 11:43.150 changed, what people didn't like they took out, what they did like they put in. 11:43.350 --> 11:44.990 And it just changed down through the years. 11:45.570 --> 11:50.210 So the first question I had to struggle with, is what we have today what was 11:50.210 --> 11:50.690 written down? 11:52.030 --> 11:54.350 Second question though is what even haunted me more. 11:54.950 --> 11:57.450 Was what was written down true? 11:58.930 --> 12:00.090 Was what was written down true? 12:00.330 --> 12:05.630 Because if what was written down wasn't true, I could care less that what we have 12:05.630 --> 12:07.070 today is what was written down. 12:07.850 --> 12:12.350 And so there were two questions that haunted me before I ever became a 12:12.350 --> 12:12.610 Christian. 12:19.040 --> 12:22.000 Truth is really based on facts. 12:23.020 --> 12:28.500 The facts that you can accept to be positive or negative. 12:31.460 --> 12:34.780 It's hard to put a good definition to that. 12:35.560 --> 12:42.880 But I always say that truth would have to have a lot of positives to it. 12:44.520 --> 12:48.140 Like evidence for living. 12:48.320 --> 12:51.140 You make your own truth in that respect. 12:52.100 --> 12:54.940 I think truth is within the person. 12:58.420 --> 13:01.080 And it just naturally evolves. 13:03.280 --> 13:05.420 A person finds their own truth. 13:05.820 --> 13:10.880 If they feel something is right and they feel that they need to find something out, 13:10.960 --> 13:11.600 they will find it. 13:11.600 --> 13:14.100 If they don't really care, then they won't find it out. 13:15.580 --> 13:17.120 It could be discovered and created. 13:17.400 --> 13:23.840 But created, it's a frame of mind that could be passed on or discovered that 13:23.840 --> 13:26.160 someone actually looks for the truth. 13:27.400 --> 13:28.820 I think it's all subjective. 13:29.240 --> 13:30.720 Truth is what it is to you. 13:30.940 --> 13:33.160 Not to what everybody tells you it's worth to me. 13:33.260 --> 13:36.000 So I think it has to be discovered because the truth for you is going to be different 13:36.000 --> 13:37.000 from what it is for other people. 13:37.790 --> 13:40.620 I think in many ways, truth is felt inside. 13:40.820 --> 13:42.720 It's neither discovered nor created. 13:44.000 --> 13:52.640 It's a sense of knowing that something 14:11.960 --> 14:12.800 does exist. 14:13.800 --> 14:15.180 Those facts have to be solid. 14:17.260 --> 14:19.100 Take theorems in geometry. 14:19.560 --> 14:20.820 They're proven with facts. 14:21.880 --> 14:25.600 And to that extent, I think the truth has to have the same kind of basis. 14:26.620 --> 14:32.400 And so this is why I had to examine the manuscripts and the background of the New 14:32.400 --> 14:32.780 Testament. 14:33.420 --> 14:39.080 And so the first question is, what is the timeline between the original, 14:39.280 --> 14:44.420 the autographa, and the closest copy? 14:44.980 --> 14:46.820 You see, the rule of thumb is this. 14:47.200 --> 14:53.160 The closer the copy to the original, usually the greater the accuracy. 14:53.600 --> 14:54.420 That's the rule of thumb. 14:54.420 --> 14:58.120 Now, it's not always true, but the overwhelming majority of the time, 14:58.580 --> 14:59.360 it is true. 14:59.640 --> 15:02.220 But see, that question has a problem behind it. 15:02.480 --> 15:03.640 And the problem was this. 15:04.420 --> 15:09.720 Literature of antiquity was written on material that would perish. 15:10.460 --> 15:13.860 Much of the New Testament manuscript, like a lot of other literature of 15:13.860 --> 15:16.920 antiquity, was written on... it's similar to this here. 15:17.360 --> 15:19.360 It's called papyrus. 15:20.040 --> 15:24.920 And this is made up of the papyrus reed, which is grown in the very shallow waters 15:24.920 --> 15:26.040 of the Nile. 15:26.260 --> 15:30.240 And they'd take these reeds, they would slice them, and then they would place them 15:30.240 --> 15:30.940 crisscross. 15:31.080 --> 15:33.400 If you look carefully here, you could see that. 15:33.900 --> 15:37.480 And then they'd put a glue on it, and then they'd press it together. 15:37.860 --> 15:38.680 And it's amazing. 15:39.060 --> 15:44.440 It really came out to be a very strong paper. 15:45.260 --> 15:46.520 Now, here was a problem. 15:46.520 --> 15:50.540 No matter what they did back then, the material would not last. 15:50.680 --> 15:51.600 It was not durable. 15:52.120 --> 15:53.680 It would start to rot away. 15:54.160 --> 15:56.520 And to show you how sensitive papyrus is... 15:57.720 --> 16:03.100 There was an archaeologist that found a portion of the Gospels in a cave. 16:03.660 --> 16:05.500 And it was on papyrus. 16:05.940 --> 16:08.500 And it had been there for hundreds of years. 16:09.100 --> 16:10.540 But the mistake he made... 16:10.540 --> 16:14.160 When he took it out of the cave, it had been sealed, and certain moisture 16:14.160 --> 16:15.000 had been sealed and everything. 16:15.240 --> 16:18.660 He took it out into the desert, and he held it up to the light to look 16:18.660 --> 16:19.320 like this. 16:19.780 --> 16:20.800 And it disintegrated. 16:21.700 --> 16:26.900 That's why even like the Dead Sea Scrolls are kept behind tinted glass with a 16:26.900 --> 16:29.480 certain temperature and everything, or they disintegrate. 16:30.120 --> 16:35.120 And the reason you don't have originals is all the material would rot away. 16:35.720 --> 16:39.040 And so that's why you have the bibliographical test. 16:39.040 --> 16:43.320 Here you have, say, this is the original, and this is a copy. 16:43.560 --> 16:47.000 How far is the copy removed from the original? 16:48.080 --> 16:51.620 There's many ways to determine the very age of a manuscript. 16:52.240 --> 16:57.000 One, probably the best way is the type of material that it's written on, 16:57.140 --> 16:58.440 and its age. 16:58.760 --> 17:05.460 For example, if it's written on parchment, or pottery, or the skin of animals, 17:05.700 --> 17:08.540 or from papyrus, which I already described. 17:08.540 --> 17:14.480 In studying that material, you can pretty well determine within a few years of when 17:14.480 --> 17:18.700 that manuscript was done, or that portion of a manuscript. 17:19.340 --> 17:22.720 Another way is by the division of the text. 17:22.800 --> 17:26.520 See, a lot of people don't realize that originally the text was not divided the 17:26.520 --> 17:28.760 way that we have it in the Bible today. 17:29.640 --> 17:35.480 Over the years, they would divide the text, or even begin or end the verse at a 17:35.480 --> 17:36.160 different place. 17:36.160 --> 17:41.240 And so by studying the division of the text, you can narrow it down to a few 17:41.240 --> 17:44.400 years when a manuscript was done. 17:44.720 --> 17:48.180 And then, have you ever picked up an old book, and you're looking at the beginning, 17:48.300 --> 17:52.120 and maybe the first letter is kind of ornate or artistic. 17:53.000 --> 17:56.900 Or there'll be a picture there, a drawing, a graphic. 17:57.460 --> 18:00.840 And by studying those, in the manuscripts, they did the same thing. 18:00.840 --> 18:07.740 And by studying those, you can pretty well determine in a close proximity the years 18:07.740 --> 18:09.480 in which a manuscript was done. 18:10.060 --> 18:13.620 This morning at my home, I had a friend over, and I said, look what I found. 18:13.720 --> 18:18.860 It was a book, handwritten back 1,500, almost 500 years ago. 18:19.280 --> 18:21.760 And as I opened it up, he says, oh, look at the drawing. 18:22.440 --> 18:26.300 And see, it's that drawing that often you can determine the age. 18:26.300 --> 18:31.120 Those are just a few ways to determine how old a manuscript is. 18:33.240 --> 18:40.420 Now, one thing that I've learned over the years, the more I compare the scriptures 18:40.420 --> 18:45.660 with other literature of antiquity, the greater appreciation I have of the 18:45.660 --> 18:46.820 scriptures in comparison. 18:46.820 --> 18:53.460 For example, with Pliny the Younger, known as Pliny Segundus, from the time he 18:53.460 --> 18:56.840 wrote to the closest manuscript, everything else rotted away and lost, 18:57.140 --> 18:59.180 750 years. 18:59.600 --> 19:02.660 With Caesar, wrote his Gallic Wars in the first century. 19:03.180 --> 19:10.040 From the time Caesar wrote to the closest manuscript, 1,000 years from the time he 19:10.040 --> 19:10.260 wrote. 19:10.520 --> 19:15.900 With Plato, from the time he wrote to the closest manuscript, 1,200 years. 19:16.900 --> 19:19.880 Aristotle wrote his Poetics around 343 B .C. 19:20.340 --> 19:24.560 The closest manuscript is 1100 A.D., 1,400 years later. 19:24.900 --> 19:26.540 Everything in between has been lost. 19:26.900 --> 19:28.820 Sophocles, 1,400 years. 19:29.160 --> 19:31.040 Euripides, 1,500 years. 19:32.100 --> 19:37.160 But when it comes to the New Testament, just the New Testament, we now go back 19:37.160 --> 19:42.640 within about 50 to 70 to 75 years. 19:43.900 --> 19:47.520 And now with some of the new discoveries, they're saying, even taking it all the way 19:47.520 --> 19:52.160 back to the 50s and the early 60s, which would be within 20 to 30, 19:52.260 --> 19:53.060 35 years. 19:53.480 --> 19:58.360 You have the John Ryland papyri, a small portion found in a cave in Egypt 19:58.360 --> 20:04.580 that was preserved over all the years, about 125 A.D., within 80 years. 20:05.000 --> 20:07.600 Then you have the Papyri Bodmer. 20:07.760 --> 20:08.860 Now, why is it called papyri? 20:08.880 --> 20:10.240 It's written on papyrus. 20:10.240 --> 20:14.820 The Papyri Bodmer II, right around 155 A .D. 20:15.000 --> 20:19.300 And then you have the Codex Sinaiticus, the Codex Vaticanus, Codex Alexandrus. 20:19.580 --> 20:20.800 So they sound like diseases. 20:21.400 --> 20:26.220 Well, these are titles given to some complete copies of the New Testament. 20:26.880 --> 20:32.900 Just time-wise, there is more evidence in the manuscripts, time-wise, for the New 20:32.900 --> 20:37.120 Testament than any ten pieces of classical literature combined. 20:37.740 --> 20:43.460 And then, with the second question, the first is the timeline. 20:44.400 --> 20:47.620 The second question is very critical. 20:48.280 --> 20:48.960 And that's this one. 20:49.180 --> 20:50.840 How many manuscripts do you have? 20:51.060 --> 20:51.680 See, what do you mean? 20:52.440 --> 20:54.620 Well, the greater numbers... 20:54.620 --> 20:56.660 See, this is the original, and here's the copies. 20:57.120 --> 21:02.500 The greater number of the copies that you have, the easier it is to reconstruct the 21:02.500 --> 21:06.540 original, the autographa, and check out any errors or discrepancies. 21:06.540 --> 21:11.160 One of the complaints is, well, you don't have the originals. 21:11.560 --> 21:13.420 Well, of course you don't have the originals. 21:13.900 --> 21:17.840 Jesus walked and lived on the face of the earth 2,000 years ago. 21:18.360 --> 21:22.040 And back then they didn't have the papers I've already described that they have 21:22.040 --> 21:22.600 today. 21:23.200 --> 21:27.820 But it's not whether you have the originals or not, but do you have the 21:27.820 --> 21:31.900 copies where you can recreate the originals? 21:31.900 --> 21:36.980 And this is what I was talking about, that we do have the copies. 21:37.140 --> 21:38.540 We do have the material. 21:39.240 --> 21:45.720 To me, it totally satisfies my mind that we are able to recreate the original. 21:46.160 --> 21:49.560 In fact, you take the Nestle's New Testament Greek. 21:49.920 --> 21:54.040 It's probably about half the size of my Bible here, and thicker. 21:54.900 --> 21:58.900 And any question and doubt that what we have today was not the original... 21:58.900 --> 22:00.040 Now, think of this. 22:00.160 --> 22:05.520 In the Greek, Nestle's New Testament is less than one half of one page. 22:06.020 --> 22:08.760 Now, when that comes to a literature of antiquity, that's miraculous. 22:08.940 --> 22:09.880 That's phenomenal. 22:10.640 --> 22:12.940 And so the issue is not whether do you have the originals. 22:13.340 --> 22:15.340 I mean, at that time, nobody has the originals. 22:15.780 --> 22:21.660 The question is, is there sufficient manuscripts to recreate the autographa, 22:22.000 --> 22:23.020 the original? 22:23.340 --> 22:26.340 And with the New Testament, I say, yes, we do. 22:29.220 --> 22:33.200 Now, in comparing with secular literature. 22:33.780 --> 22:36.240 For example, Caesar and the Gallic Wars. 22:37.140 --> 22:38.000 Ten manuscripts. 22:38.780 --> 22:42.000 But nobody in the university questions that Caesar fought the Gallic Wars. 22:42.120 --> 22:45.040 And for a long time, he was the only one that ever survived that wrote about it. 22:45.760 --> 22:50.300 A thousand years, the closest manuscript after he died, and there's only ten 22:50.300 --> 22:50.840 manuscripts. 22:51.640 --> 22:53.660 Of Plato, seven manuscripts. 22:53.660 --> 22:57.640 Of Tacitus, the Roman historian. 22:58.780 --> 23:02.640 Right now, there's less than twenty manuscripts that have ever survived. 23:03.080 --> 23:03.920 And then Thucydides. 23:04.100 --> 23:09.480 Many people consider Thucydides one of the most accurate historians of antiquity. 23:10.540 --> 23:12.080 And yet, there's only seven manuscripts. 23:13.060 --> 23:18.780 And those are a thousand, three hundred years after Thucydides died. 23:18.780 --> 23:23.320 Herodotus is eight manuscripts in about a thousand, four hundred years. 23:23.780 --> 23:30.220 With Pliny the Younger, there's about seven manuscripts. 23:31.320 --> 23:34.300 With Sophocles, a hundred and ninety-three, which is one of the most. 23:34.620 --> 23:35.640 Euripides, nine. 23:36.740 --> 23:37.540 The men and women. 23:37.900 --> 23:40.520 Aristotle, there were thirteen. 23:40.680 --> 23:42.600 Now it's up to forty-nine they've discovered. 23:43.300 --> 23:47.620 Well, with the New Testament, just the New Testament, and the new evidence that 23:47.620 --> 23:52.240 demands a verdict, I have now been able to document twenty-four thousand, 23:52.500 --> 23:54.380 six hundred and thirty-three manuscripts. 23:54.920 --> 23:56.260 Of just the New Testament. 23:56.920 --> 23:58.780 I never even knew they existed. 23:59.500 --> 24:01.460 Until I set out to make a joke of it. 24:02.000 --> 24:04.380 And later, I found out the joke was on me. 24:04.560 --> 24:06.820 I had not done my homework. 24:07.420 --> 24:11.340 Now let me show you how unique that twenty-four thousand, six hundred and 24:11.340 --> 24:12.000 thirty-three is. 24:12.000 --> 24:18.180 Is there any of you here that know the number two book in manuscript authority in 24:18.180 --> 24:18.820 all of history? 24:19.120 --> 24:20.540 The New Testament's number one. 24:20.740 --> 24:24.600 Any of you know the number two book in all history in manuscript authority? 24:26.880 --> 24:29.120 The Iliad by Homer. 24:30.020 --> 24:32.560 Six hundred and forty-three manuscripts. 24:33.220 --> 24:34.740 That's number two in all history. 24:34.740 --> 24:40.480 And yet it's interesting, to this day, I've yet to find a teacher or a professor 24:40.480 --> 24:41.900 that knew that. 24:42.320 --> 24:45.220 I didn't even know it until I set out to make a joke of it. 24:45.920 --> 24:51.480 Just number-wise, there is more evidence to examine than any ten pieces of 24:51.480 --> 24:54.620 classical and literature of antiquity put together. 24:55.320 --> 24:57.000 But no, you can do this. 24:57.960 --> 25:00.580 Take every Bible and destroy it. 25:01.040 --> 25:03.360 Take every manuscript and burn it. 25:04.380 --> 25:05.860 Destroy every manuscript. 25:06.620 --> 25:07.860 Destroy every Bible. 25:09.460 --> 25:12.900 And within a hundred and fifty to two hundred and fifty, three hundred years of 25:12.900 --> 25:16.900 Christ, closer than any other literature of antiquity, I can reconstruct all but 25:16.900 --> 25:19.060 eleven verses of the entire New Testament. 25:19.660 --> 25:21.880 You say, now wait a minute, without any manuscripts? 25:22.740 --> 25:23.480 Without anybody? 25:23.680 --> 25:23.920 Yeah. 25:24.440 --> 25:25.440 Throw them all away and burn them. 25:26.280 --> 25:28.680 And I can go back within a hundred and fifty to three hundred years and 25:28.680 --> 25:29.040 reconstruct. 25:29.340 --> 25:30.060 Say, how do you do that? 25:31.260 --> 25:38.000 I discovered that the early church fathers, when they would write letters to 25:38.000 --> 25:45.160 the churches, or they would give sermons, they would write out and copy quotes out 25:45.160 --> 25:45.740 of the scriptures. 25:46.640 --> 25:47.940 Well, just like I do. 25:48.600 --> 25:52.340 I will copy sometimes a half chapter out through my notes. 25:52.340 --> 25:59.040 And they have sometimes, they would copy three, four, five chapters of the 25:59.040 --> 26:01.120 scriptures in corresponding with the churches. 26:02.020 --> 26:12.640 And I've now been able to document 86,429 quotations from just the early church 26:12.640 --> 26:13.520 fathers. 26:13.520 --> 26:20.640 And taking these 86,429 quotations, you can, without any Bible manuscript or 26:20.640 --> 26:23.980 anything, you can reconstruct all but eleven verses. 26:24.700 --> 26:27.940 But I never knew that until I set out to make a joke of it. 26:28.420 --> 26:32.240 And I found out later, boy, the joke was on me. 26:32.840 --> 26:37.040 That even to recreate much of the original, you don't even have to have a 26:37.040 --> 26:38.740 Bible or a transcript. 26:39.480 --> 26:42.560 And that is mind-blowing to me. 26:42.560 --> 26:48.420 And so, time-wise and number-wise, the Bible stands alone. 26:48.880 --> 26:50.520 Now, it doesn't mean it's true. 26:51.320 --> 26:55.560 But I think it does mean this, that what we have today is what was 26:55.560 --> 26:56.000 written down. 26:56.420 --> 26:59.400 Whether what was written down was true or not, but it is what was written down. 27:00.340 --> 27:01.520 Now, the second question. 27:02.140 --> 27:04.000 Was what was written down true? 27:04.480 --> 27:05.600 Did Jesus do that? 27:05.680 --> 27:06.500 Did he say this? 27:06.660 --> 27:11.600 Is this a true rendering of what Christ said and what he did? 27:19.200 --> 27:21.000 I would say parts of it. 27:21.900 --> 27:25.900 Again, I think it's all based on what had happened. 27:26.060 --> 27:31.560 But I don't know if it's actually word for word exactly what went on. 27:31.680 --> 27:34.320 I think it's just somebody's telling a story. 27:35.100 --> 27:41.600 It could be changed at any time, from history to even fiction, like 27:41.600 --> 27:42.120 make-believe. 27:42.300 --> 27:44.890 It could be any one of those that they choose. 27:48.690 --> 27:49.570 I don't know. 27:50.030 --> 27:50.750 It's a good question. 27:51.850 --> 27:58.230 How does one define or ascertain whether something written over the course of 27:58.230 --> 28:02.170 centuries is in fact what was intended to be written from the onset? 28:03.630 --> 28:08.150 I mean, I know for me, if I read the Bible, I follow it how I interpret it. 28:08.230 --> 28:12.870 So, if I think something about it is right, then I'm not going to follow that 28:12.870 --> 28:13.430 part of it. 28:16.330 --> 28:21.230 There are several lines of argument that I want to share along that. 28:21.850 --> 28:25.130 The first is the writers of the New Testament. 28:26.090 --> 28:31.530 They wrote as eyewitnesses or they recorded eyewitness accounts. 28:31.990 --> 28:32.490 You say, what? 28:32.910 --> 28:39.290 They wrote as eyewitnesses or, like Luke, they recorded eyewitness 28:39.290 --> 28:39.790 accounts. 28:40.730 --> 28:44.550 I believe Matthew, Mark, and John are eyewitnesses. 28:44.550 --> 28:45.950 Luke is not. 28:46.250 --> 28:49.690 Luke recorded eyewitness accounts for Theophilus. 28:50.230 --> 28:54.810 And see, what they did in those days is often a man would hire a scribe, 28:54.870 --> 29:00.070 a scholar, a researcher to research out, just like people do today. 29:00.810 --> 29:07.830 And it looks like Theophilus had hired Luke to study everything carefully that 29:07.830 --> 29:08.270 had happened. 29:08.270 --> 29:13.570 And Luke starts out his gospel by saying, I have examined everything carefully from 29:13.570 --> 29:18.390 the beginning from those who are eyewitnesses to present to you the exact 29:18.390 --> 29:21.730 truth of the things taught among us. 29:21.990 --> 29:27.990 So, Luke did not write as an eyewitness, but he did record eyewitness accounts. 29:28.970 --> 29:32.970 One of the most critical tests for me is the eyewitness. 29:32.970 --> 29:38.610 I mean, here in the New Testament time, the community was the most powerful force 29:38.610 --> 29:40.170 to determine truth. 29:40.570 --> 29:43.950 Because, you see, there were so many people alive who knew Jesus when this was 29:43.950 --> 29:45.110 all recorded and written. 29:45.590 --> 29:48.430 They knew what he said, they knew where he went, what he did. 29:48.830 --> 29:53.710 And if they would have ever dared to have added or to have taken away, there were 29:53.710 --> 29:58.170 antagonistic people right there at that time to correct them. 29:58.170 --> 30:02.130 And then also, coming, you know, to the book of Mark, a lot of people say, 30:02.210 --> 30:05.590 well, you can't consider Mark an eyewitness, even though he recorded 30:05.590 --> 30:06.550 eyewitness accounts. 30:06.970 --> 30:10.250 And they said, but Mark wasn't an eyewitness when he wrote the gospel of 30:10.250 --> 30:10.530 Mark. 30:10.630 --> 30:13.450 He recorded what Peter said. 30:13.830 --> 30:17.410 And there are secular sources, apart from the Bible, that would confirm 30:17.410 --> 30:20.910 that Mark was the recorder of what Peter said. 30:20.910 --> 30:23.170 And see, that was done all the time in olden days. 30:23.310 --> 30:27.930 And even like now is in the olden days, they would often have a writer, 30:28.070 --> 30:35.530 a scribe, a recorder that would take down the person's memory and what he shared. 30:36.150 --> 30:37.750 And then that would become his work. 30:37.750 --> 30:43.350 But recently a book came out on eyewitness to Jesus, and it was written by an 30:43.350 --> 30:43.730 attorney. 30:44.110 --> 30:49.490 And she clearly documented, according to the laws of legal evidence, that Mark 30:49.490 --> 30:55.910 would be considered an eyewitness account because he had recorded. 30:56.550 --> 31:00.570 He was simply the recorder of the eyewitness, which was Peter. 31:01.110 --> 31:04.710 And so the eyewitness is a powerful determinant of truth. 31:08.580 --> 31:16.140 For example, in 1 John 1.3, in the New Testament, the apostle John says, 31:16.260 --> 31:19.940 What our eyes have seen, what our ears have heard, what our hands have handled, 31:20.380 --> 31:22.280 we declare unto you about Jesus Christ. 31:22.620 --> 31:25.920 Well, you can't get much closer to this situation. 31:26.580 --> 31:32.580 And then in 2 Peter 1.16, Peter is talking to the Jewish audience. 31:33.020 --> 31:36.400 And he said, We do not follow cleverly devised tales. 31:36.400 --> 31:40.600 You know, it's interesting today, how many people will say to me, 31:41.000 --> 31:44.640 and many of them are very sincere, they'll say, you know, back then they 31:44.640 --> 31:47.200 couldn't discern the difference between tales and truth. 31:47.520 --> 31:50.780 They couldn't discern the difference between fact and fiction. 31:51.740 --> 31:55.180 Well, let me tell you, I'll stand, I'll put any of them up against any 31:55.180 --> 31:58.420 professor today or any historian today. 31:58.740 --> 32:01.040 They knew the difference between truth and tales. 32:01.120 --> 32:02.400 They went out and died for it. 32:02.400 --> 32:07.500 And Peter starts out here and says, We did not follow cleverly devised tales. 32:07.640 --> 32:10.120 They knew the difference between tales and truth and fact and fiction. 32:10.540 --> 32:13.060 But we were eyewitnesses. 32:13.860 --> 32:15.740 We were eyewitnesses. 32:16.300 --> 32:17.900 They wrote as eyewitnesses. 32:18.200 --> 32:28.960 And then in John 20, verses 30 to 31, John says, Many other things, many other 32:28.960 --> 32:30.660 signs Jesus performed. 32:30.780 --> 32:31.800 Now, why did he do signs? 32:32.100 --> 32:36.980 He did signs to convince people that he was from the Father, that he was the 32:36.980 --> 32:38.180 Messiah, the Son of God. 32:38.520 --> 32:42.980 And it says, Many other signs Jesus did that convinced people then that he was the 32:42.980 --> 32:43.320 Messiah. 32:43.640 --> 32:46.580 And John writes, They have not even been recorded. 32:47.620 --> 32:51.900 But then the next verse says, But these things have been written, In other words, 32:51.980 --> 32:56.060 these signs have been recorded that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ and 32:56.060 --> 32:58.240 in believing, have eternal life. 33:02.250 --> 33:07.610 I don't think it would be, it's a matter of proving something. 33:07.970 --> 33:09.970 I think it's a matter of believing and feeling. 33:10.730 --> 33:11.650 That's what I feel. 33:11.830 --> 33:13.050 I learned to live this way. 33:13.390 --> 33:16.830 And I actually, I have questioned that. 33:17.270 --> 33:21.210 That it would be difficult to prove in a court of law. 33:21.730 --> 33:23.030 It would be difficult to prove. 33:24.470 --> 33:28.890 I would say it would go with any religion that it cannot, that it couldn't be proven 33:28.890 --> 33:30.450 through law force. 33:31.390 --> 33:35.990 There is too many variables there, depending on who the judges are, 33:36.050 --> 33:36.890 the jury is. 33:37.810 --> 33:40.610 It's impossible to put a label to that. 33:41.770 --> 33:44.090 This is where I get the phrase that I like to use. 33:44.890 --> 33:48.630 The evidence for Christianity is not exhaustive, but it's sufficient. 33:49.330 --> 33:50.130 And you say, What do you mean? 33:50.870 --> 33:55.850 Well, in verse 30, the apostle John writes out, he says it's not exhaustive. 33:55.950 --> 33:58.570 Many of the signs Jesus did haven't even been recorded. 33:59.390 --> 34:00.470 So it's not exhaustive. 34:00.670 --> 34:05.050 But he said, these that had been recorded of what Christ did and said, are that you 34:05.050 --> 34:06.930 might have life and have eternal life in him. 34:07.190 --> 34:09.990 So he said it is sufficient for an intelligent belief. 34:10.410 --> 34:14.530 So the evidence is not exhaustive, but it is sufficient. 34:15.050 --> 34:17.130 They wrote as eyewitnesses. 34:17.130 --> 34:23.970 And in Luke, when he starts out the book of Acts, in the first three verses, 34:24.890 --> 34:34.110 he said that Christ had appeared to the apostles with many convincing proofs over 34:34.110 --> 34:36.410 a period of 40 days. 34:36.730 --> 34:41.090 And that phrase, convincing proofs, was a phrase of that day of overwhelming 34:41.090 --> 34:43.570 evidence in a court of law. 34:44.530 --> 34:46.950 And so he says there, look, I'm not an eyewitness. 34:47.390 --> 34:51.550 But in examining the eyewitness, they recorded that they lived with Christ, 34:51.630 --> 34:56.990 they ate with him, everything, for 40 days after the resurrection. 34:57.430 --> 34:59.510 So he recorded an eyewitness account. 35:00.290 --> 35:04.590 Now, there's a second part of the writers of the scriptures. 35:04.970 --> 35:09.950 They not only wrote as eyewitnesses or recorded eyewitness accounts, but here is 35:09.950 --> 35:10.910 a critical key. 35:11.450 --> 35:15.770 In the presence of some of the most adamant, some of the most hostile 35:15.770 --> 35:21.310 witnesses, people that disagreed with him, people who knew Jesus, they knew what he 35:21.310 --> 35:22.250 said, knew what he did. 35:23.010 --> 35:23.870 Hostile witnesses. 35:24.850 --> 35:31.110 They presented this in the presence of hostile, knowledgeable witnesses and said, 35:31.210 --> 35:32.230 you know what we're talking about. 35:32.570 --> 35:36.710 They not only said, we saw these things, but in front of knowledgeable witnesses, 35:36.710 --> 35:39.630 they threw it back in their lap and said, you know what I'm talking about. 35:39.630 --> 35:42.670 For example, here again we'll go back to Peter. 35:43.270 --> 35:48.210 In Acts 2.22, he is before a very antagonistic Jewish audience. 35:48.870 --> 35:53.190 They really thought that the disciples and the apostles were presenting a false 35:53.190 --> 35:53.690 Messiah. 35:54.570 --> 35:57.510 And any sincere Jew would have to stand against that. 35:58.030 --> 35:59.470 Strongly stand against that. 36:00.210 --> 36:01.470 And so they did. 36:02.110 --> 36:04.970 So here is Peter before this antagonistic audience. 36:05.490 --> 36:06.970 And notice what he does. 36:06.970 --> 36:10.650 This here is one of the best preservers of truth. 36:11.110 --> 36:14.470 He said, men of Israel, listen to these words. 36:14.970 --> 36:16.010 Jesus the Nazarene. 36:16.610 --> 36:17.330 And notice what he says. 36:17.550 --> 36:19.830 A man attested to you. 36:20.050 --> 36:21.510 In other words, not just to us. 36:22.210 --> 36:24.750 He is standing in front of these hostile people and say, look. 36:25.470 --> 36:32.410 He was attested to you with miracles and wonders in science, which God performed 36:32.410 --> 36:36.710 through him in your midst just as you yourselves know. 36:37.670 --> 36:39.030 Well, I'll tell you this. 36:39.870 --> 36:44.290 If that antagonistic Jewish audience had not seen those miracles and those wonders 36:44.290 --> 36:48.990 and science, literally everything that Peter would have said would have been 36:48.990 --> 36:50.510 discounted and thrown out. 36:50.990 --> 36:54.030 And he would have probably been lucky to make it out of there alive. 36:54.670 --> 36:56.350 But what does history show this happened? 36:57.370 --> 36:59.310 Thousands were added to the church. 37:00.190 --> 37:03.670 You see, it was presented in the presence of knowledgeable people. 37:04.330 --> 37:09.610 Where if they would have dared to depart from the truth, the very community itself 37:09.610 --> 37:11.070 would have corrected it. 37:13.390 --> 37:15.510 They appealed to the knowledge of their opponents. 37:15.990 --> 37:20.690 And I know when I go into a debate, and over the years I probably had close to 37:20.690 --> 37:25.570 200 to 250 debates, and I studied my opponent's position more than I do my own. 37:25.630 --> 37:26.350 I know what I believe. 37:26.410 --> 37:27.170 I know why I believe it. 37:27.170 --> 37:30.370 I got to find out why does my opponent believe what he or she believes. 37:30.830 --> 37:35.790 And so, when I go into a debate, I would constantly turn to my opponent on 37:35.790 --> 37:37.830 some point and say, Isn't this true? 37:37.990 --> 37:39.710 Or, you know what I'm talking about. 37:40.550 --> 37:43.250 Boy, you better be accurate when you do that or you'll be shoved right back down 37:43.250 --> 37:43.770 your throat. 37:44.570 --> 37:47.890 And you can be right 19 times, miss it once, and if your opponent is 37:47.890 --> 37:53.050 sharp, he or she will step up and bury you that one time that you missed the mark, 37:53.090 --> 37:55.470 not the 19 times you nailed it. 37:55.470 --> 38:02.030 And so the community became a powerful corrector of falsehood. 38:02.490 --> 38:04.130 And a lot of people don't realize that. 38:04.490 --> 38:10.350 You have in Acts 26, and starting with verse, say, 20 and 22. 38:10.790 --> 38:12.590 Here is Paul brought before the king. 38:13.710 --> 38:17.770 And he'd argue a little bit on the deity of Christ, the resurrection, and the king 38:17.770 --> 38:21.610 says, Paul, your great learning is driving you mad. 38:21.810 --> 38:23.250 Well, they knew Paul had great learning. 38:23.250 --> 38:24.970 He was brilliant. 38:25.370 --> 38:27.890 And he said, your great learning is driving you mad. 38:28.770 --> 38:30.290 And Paul responded to the king. 38:30.890 --> 38:35.790 He said, I am speaking to you of words of truth and rationale. 38:36.630 --> 38:38.750 For this has not been done. 38:38.830 --> 38:39.630 Notice what he did now. 38:40.010 --> 38:44.950 This has not been done in the corner, for the king knows about these matters. 38:46.150 --> 38:47.270 What did Paul do? 38:47.690 --> 38:52.590 He took the whole argument, threw it back on the king's lap, and said, this was not 38:52.590 --> 38:53.330 done in the corner. 38:53.710 --> 38:55.110 You know what I'm talking about. 38:55.910 --> 38:59.110 Well, boy, when you do that, you better be accurate, or you have totally lost your 38:59.110 --> 38:59.510 audience. 39:00.150 --> 39:02.330 And yet that's what the apostle Paul did. 39:02.690 --> 39:05.650 They wrote as eyewitnesses, or recorded eyewitness accounts. 39:06.270 --> 39:11.450 Second, they appealed to the knowledge of the readers and listeners concerning the 39:11.450 --> 39:12.850 evidence that they spoke about. 39:13.650 --> 39:18.810 And so I believe that what we have here is literally what Jesus said and what Jesus 39:18.810 --> 39:19.210 did. 39:19.210 --> 39:23.390 I believe what was written down was true of what Christ said and did. 39:23.850 --> 39:26.650 Because they wouldn't have dared to have departed. 39:27.030 --> 39:28.370 The community was there. 39:28.950 --> 39:33.850 Even the apostle Paul said, in 1 Corinthians 15, he said, and Christ 39:33.850 --> 39:37.370 appeared to over 500 people at one time. 39:37.850 --> 39:38.690 And notice what he says. 39:38.950 --> 39:42.490 He said, the majority of them are alive right now. 39:43.290 --> 39:44.390 I mean, wow. 39:45.110 --> 39:48.450 If he didn't appear to 500 people and the majority are alive right now, Paul was 39:48.450 --> 39:49.670 saying, go check it out yourself. 39:50.690 --> 39:51.890 He would have been buried. 39:52.690 --> 39:57.650 Instead of being killed by the Jewish leaders, the church would have probably 39:57.650 --> 40:00.270 killed him for doing that. 40:00.430 --> 40:02.510 I'm speaking rather facetiously here. 40:03.170 --> 40:05.990 But he appealed to the knowledge. 40:06.570 --> 40:12.610 And then there's two issues that come up with the apostles. 40:14.050 --> 40:18.590 Then I believe comes to relating that what was written down was true. 40:19.110 --> 40:22.910 Not only do we have what was written down, but what was written down was true about 40:22.910 --> 40:24.890 what Jesus said and what Jesus did. 40:26.230 --> 40:29.930 Here you have the apostles, the followers, the intimate followers of Christ. 40:31.130 --> 40:36.010 I think you could be fairly accurate in saying 11 of the 12 died martyrs' deaths. 40:36.550 --> 40:38.690 You could be very accurate in saying 10 of the 12. 40:40.610 --> 40:41.990 I'll say 11 of the 12. 40:41.990 --> 40:44.050 11 of the 12 died martyrs' deaths. 40:44.170 --> 40:45.430 The other died in exile, John. 40:46.490 --> 40:47.670 But what did they die for? 40:48.390 --> 40:49.930 Look, you read the book of Acts. 40:50.330 --> 40:52.830 You go back to the early church and the early church fathers. 40:53.250 --> 40:58.590 They died for one thing, an empty tomb and the appearance of a man by the name of 40:58.590 --> 40:59.470 Jesus of Nazareth. 41:00.550 --> 41:05.490 And in their own words they said, for 40 days we lived with him, 41:05.550 --> 41:09.710 we ate with him after the resurrection with many convincing proofs. 41:11.850 --> 41:15.690 And 11 of the 12 died some of the most heinous deaths in history. 41:16.570 --> 41:20.910 Dr. Simon Greenleaf, the man who you might say put Harvard Law School in the map, 41:21.290 --> 41:24.990 wrote the three great volumes in the Laws of Legal Evidence, the Royal Professor of 41:24.990 --> 41:29.610 Law, and in studying military history he made this statement. 41:30.750 --> 41:37.170 There is no equal to what the apostles went through and never once denied that 41:37.170 --> 41:39.950 Christ had been raised from the dead and they had seen him and lived with him for 41:39.950 --> 41:40.490 40 days. 41:40.830 --> 41:45.230 Not one of them in the greatest persecution ever denied that and torture. 41:46.090 --> 41:49.690 He said in the annals of military warfare there is no equal. 41:50.930 --> 41:52.990 I mean you go back a number of years and look at Watergate. 41:53.530 --> 41:56.390 Nobody was threatened with death or anything, the death penalty or anything 41:56.390 --> 41:56.850 else. 41:57.710 --> 42:02.550 And yet they couldn't even keep a secret for more than a few days. 42:02.810 --> 42:04.350 And one after another started breaking. 42:05.150 --> 42:08.530 And yet here were men that were persecuted, they were tortured. 42:10.070 --> 42:17.210 And they never once denied that after he was crucified and buried for 40 days, 42:17.270 --> 42:18.710 they lived with him and ate with him. 42:19.250 --> 42:24.350 Now here are two legitimate questions that appeal to that. 42:24.990 --> 42:30.330 The first is this, you could honestly say, well, a lot of people have died for a lie. 42:31.250 --> 42:32.130 And that's true. 42:33.090 --> 42:36.630 A lot of people have died for a lie. 42:37.070 --> 42:41.230 I mean you could go back through history and see people that have died for lies 42:41.230 --> 42:42.550 later found out was a lie. 42:43.310 --> 42:44.910 And so they see, what's the big deal? 42:45.570 --> 42:47.750 Well, here's the issue when it comes to the apostles. 42:48.690 --> 42:50.070 Yes, I will grant it. 42:50.670 --> 42:56.950 A lot of people have died for a lie, but they thought it was the truth. 42:58.150 --> 42:59.470 They thought it was the truth. 42:59.470 --> 43:00.770 Now here's a catch. 43:02.830 --> 43:11.230 If the resurrection did not take place, and that for 40 days these 12 men had not 43:11.230 --> 43:15.850 lived with Christ, eaten with Christ everywhere for 40 days, then they had to 43:15.850 --> 43:16.510 know it was a lie. 43:18.070 --> 43:19.130 And here's the catch. 43:19.650 --> 43:22.350 Yes, a lot of people have died for a lie, but they thought it was the truth. 43:23.230 --> 43:26.670 If the apostles died for a lie, through the torture and everything they 43:26.670 --> 43:30.070 went, they had to know it was a lie. 43:32.510 --> 43:36.170 I trust them more than most people I've ever studied in history. 43:36.870 --> 43:42.010 They went through the test of death to determine their veracity. 43:43.050 --> 43:44.310 Tertullian put it this way. 43:44.890 --> 43:47.810 They signed their testimony in blood. 43:58.610 --> 44:04.690 I'd have to answer more so the negative side, but I would say it's the feeling of 44:04.690 --> 44:12.210 these scholars and clergymen that put their words into it. 44:14.010 --> 44:15.090 In your opinion? 44:16.050 --> 44:17.110 In my honest opinion? 44:17.170 --> 44:17.390 Yeah. 44:17.390 --> 44:26.030 I think some of it can be taken as words of God, but I don't think God wrote it 44:26.030 --> 44:26.490 himself. 44:28.050 --> 44:34.490 Maybe the disciples or people that were strong believers in him, but I don't think 44:34.490 --> 44:35.910 he actually hand-wrote it himself. 44:36.670 --> 44:36.930 I don't know. 44:41.560 --> 44:43.360 I don't really have an answer for that. 44:43.760 --> 44:44.680 I've not thought about that. 44:45.380 --> 44:46.080 I don't either. 44:46.200 --> 44:47.800 I think that's what everybody's trying to find out. 44:47.800 --> 44:51.360 And maybe we'll never know. 44:52.700 --> 44:57.320 I believe it's the word of those that wrote it. 44:58.180 --> 45:03.900 And as they perceive directly or indirectly what the word of God would have 45:03.900 --> 45:05.820 been, was, or should have been. 45:09.730 --> 45:11.710 Maybe some of you have heard the name. 45:11.750 --> 45:12.530 A lot of people have. 45:12.770 --> 45:13.630 Andre Cole. 45:13.990 --> 45:15.150 That's his stage name. 45:15.150 --> 45:18.190 His real name is Bob Gertler. 45:19.010 --> 45:22.770 He's referred to as the world's greatest illusionist. 45:23.750 --> 45:26.490 He trained many of the other illusionists and names you know. 45:27.150 --> 45:33.010 He has created, now think, one mind has created and sold over 2,000 illusionary 45:33.010 --> 45:34.350 and magical effects. 45:34.450 --> 45:35.310 All out of one mind. 45:36.130 --> 45:38.990 The disappearing of the 747, Statue of Liberty, everything. 45:38.990 --> 45:43.870 I mean, I've stood a little further from here to say those lights right there, 45:43.990 --> 45:46.630 when he made the Statue of Liberty disappear. 45:47.190 --> 45:48.510 And I've seen it three times. 45:49.530 --> 45:51.170 And I remember I said to Andre, how'd you do that? 45:51.190 --> 45:52.090 And he said, very well. 45:54.330 --> 45:56.010 And this guy's phenomenal. 45:56.770 --> 45:59.790 And he's referred to as the magician's magician. 46:00.390 --> 46:01.210 That's his title. 46:02.010 --> 46:03.990 He didn't give himself, the other magicians gave it. 46:03.990 --> 46:08.450 And he's the only man who can boast, from what I understand, that he's never 46:08.450 --> 46:10.210 been fooled by another illusionist. 46:11.530 --> 46:13.450 Well, he graduated from UCLA. 46:15.550 --> 46:22.790 And he was challenged to take his expertise as the world's greatest 46:22.790 --> 46:26.550 illusionist, a man who can boast he's never been fooled by another illusionist. 46:27.330 --> 46:33.090 And to apply his skills to the miracles of Jesus Christ to explain them away as 46:33.090 --> 46:34.090 illusion and magic. 46:35.030 --> 46:37.830 He thought that would be an easy task. 46:38.150 --> 46:41.130 In fact, I thought that was a pretty good challenge to do that. 46:41.230 --> 46:42.010 I wish I'd thought of that. 46:42.690 --> 46:45.190 And since he thought it'd be so easy, he accepted it. 46:46.170 --> 46:48.050 In the process, he became a Christian. 46:49.450 --> 46:53.310 And I was with him up in Vancouver, British Columbia a number of years ago. 46:53.890 --> 46:57.750 And he started to share with me his testimony, what brought him to Christ. 46:58.010 --> 47:03.370 And how he was challenged to take modern illusion and magic and refute the miracles 47:03.370 --> 47:03.870 of Christ. 47:04.270 --> 47:06.390 And he gave me some of the principles of illusion. 47:06.550 --> 47:09.010 For example, almost all illusions are done indoors. 47:09.150 --> 47:09.410 Why? 47:09.670 --> 47:11.390 You've got to control the environment. 47:12.110 --> 47:14.590 Almost all of Christ's miracles were done outdoors. 47:15.250 --> 47:17.550 Which many illusionists would never dream of doing. 47:18.370 --> 47:26.690 And in the process, he said he was able to explain away some of the miracles. 47:27.430 --> 47:30.050 But he said when it came to several, he couldn't. 47:30.110 --> 47:33.050 He said the main one was the resurrection. 47:33.710 --> 47:38.490 He said, Josh, in using all the modern magic, illusion and everything, 47:38.890 --> 47:45.730 there is no way in all our knowledge today that he could have deceived his followers. 47:46.470 --> 47:50.050 He said, Josh, you've got to understand, to do some of the illusions today, 47:50.330 --> 47:55.050 you have an 18-wheeler semi-load of just equipment to do one illusion. 47:55.630 --> 47:56.890 He said, Jesus had none of that. 47:57.510 --> 47:58.890 And he did most of them outdoors. 47:59.890 --> 48:01.730 Even the resurrection took place outdoors. 48:02.830 --> 48:05.030 And he said, I could not refute it. 48:05.670 --> 48:09.070 And it's one of the things that brought Andre Cole to Christ. 48:09.430 --> 48:12.810 And he said, if the resurrection was a lie, these men had to know it. 48:13.510 --> 48:19.110 So, yes, a lot of people have died for a lie, but they thought it was the truth. 48:20.050 --> 48:24.250 But if the resurrection is a lie, then these 12 men had to know it was a 48:24.250 --> 48:24.410 lie. 48:24.610 --> 48:28.610 And they not only died for a lie, but they knew it was a lie. 48:29.350 --> 48:33.410 It would be mighty hard to find an equal to that in all of history. 48:34.610 --> 48:39.430 But the second argument, or the second line of reasoning here, were the apostles. 48:41.370 --> 48:43.670 And this is one of the stronger ones to me. 48:45.730 --> 48:49.390 When you say that here were 12 men, 11 of the 12 died martyrs, deaths, 48:50.150 --> 48:53.590 for one thing, an empty tomb, the appearances of man by the name of Jesus in 48:53.590 --> 48:54.050 Nazareth. 48:54.670 --> 48:59.590 And I think a very fair accusation is, well, a lot of people have died for a 48:59.590 --> 49:00.190 great cause. 49:01.010 --> 49:03.130 And you know, that accusation is true. 49:03.550 --> 49:07.370 There are a lot of people that have died for a great cause. 49:07.370 --> 49:13.510 I remember I was out in San Diego during the Vietnam War, where this fellow ran 49:13.510 --> 49:17.130 out, set himself on fire, and died. 49:17.210 --> 49:18.750 He killed himself over Vietnam. 49:19.650 --> 49:23.950 What the newspapers didn't bring out, from what I understand, is that his 49:23.950 --> 49:27.030 roommate had a fire extinguisher, but it didn't work. 49:27.550 --> 49:31.770 He really didn't plan on dying, but he ended up dying because the fire 49:31.770 --> 49:32.630 extinguisher didn't work. 49:33.830 --> 49:38.950 But in all of history, you can trace back and find many people who have died for a 49:38.950 --> 49:39.650 great cause. 49:39.910 --> 49:44.370 So they say, see Josh, the apostles knew it was a great cause, and they were 49:44.370 --> 49:46.110 willing to lie and die for it. 49:46.930 --> 49:50.090 I say, wait a minute, this is where that breaks down. 49:51.170 --> 49:54.310 Their great cause died on the cross. 49:55.670 --> 49:56.590 You say, now what do you mean? 49:57.430 --> 50:01.450 To understand that, you have to go back in history some. 50:01.530 --> 50:04.810 And I document this in my book called More Than a Carpenter. 50:05.310 --> 50:07.250 And I document it from Jewish sources. 50:08.610 --> 50:14.090 A lot of people have died for a great cause, but their great cause died on the 50:14.090 --> 50:14.550 cross. 50:15.550 --> 50:18.290 And if that was their great cause, you have to explain what happened in their 50:18.290 --> 50:18.970 lives afterwards. 50:19.130 --> 50:23.990 And they became martyrs and faced all that torture for a cause that died on the 50:23.990 --> 50:24.310 cross. 50:24.870 --> 50:27.750 You see, you go way back before the time of Christ. 50:28.810 --> 50:32.050 And the hierarchy of Judaism taught, and I've got this all documented in the 50:32.050 --> 50:32.990 book More Than a Carpenter. 50:33.670 --> 50:37.470 They taught that there were going to be two messiahs coming. 50:38.070 --> 50:39.610 Two messiahs, once each. 50:40.130 --> 50:43.650 One would be the suffering messiah, the son of Joseph. 50:44.610 --> 50:46.910 Who would come and suffer for the sins of Israel. 50:47.210 --> 50:52.210 The other would be the reigning political messiah, who would come and take Israel 50:52.210 --> 50:53.070 out of bondage. 50:53.850 --> 50:56.010 And take them off into the millennium. 50:56.830 --> 50:58.450 And you say, well, how did they get that? 50:58.810 --> 51:04.010 Well, see, when Jesus came onto the scene, Jesus was probably the most unlike person 51:04.010 --> 51:04.950 to his times. 51:05.410 --> 51:07.130 That's why people couldn't understand him. 51:08.030 --> 51:11.670 Jews from childhood up taught there were going to be two messiahs coming once each. 51:11.950 --> 51:14.410 Jesus said, no, there's one messiah coming twice. 51:15.230 --> 51:20.270 He said, I'm coming first to suffer, then I'm coming back a second time to 51:20.270 --> 51:21.070 reign politically. 51:21.710 --> 51:23.810 And to rule the world. 51:25.570 --> 51:26.910 Now, how did they get this? 51:27.390 --> 51:30.610 Well, as you read the Old Testament, one verse is talking about a reigning 51:30.610 --> 51:31.510 political messiah. 51:32.350 --> 51:34.530 The other verse is talking about a suffering messiah. 51:34.910 --> 51:37.090 The next verse is a reigning political messiah suffering. 51:37.570 --> 51:40.390 One chapter would be about a reigning messiah, another chapter the suffering. 51:40.630 --> 51:44.250 So they said, well, there must be two messiahs coming once each. 51:44.450 --> 51:47.890 Jesus said, no, there's one messiah coming twice. 51:49.370 --> 51:55.210 But when the Romans had taken captive of Israel and brought them under as slaves in 51:55.210 --> 52:03.130 servitude, the Jewish hierarchy was having a hard time holding the allegiance of the 52:03.130 --> 52:03.450 people. 52:04.010 --> 52:07.230 Because it was hard to hold the allegiance of people saying, well, the messiah is 52:07.230 --> 52:08.810 going to come and have hope, but he's going to die. 52:09.950 --> 52:11.410 I mean, that doesn't hold any allegiance. 52:11.970 --> 52:15.390 So they said, look, we are the messiah. 52:15.390 --> 52:17.510 Israel is a messiah, we have suffered. 52:17.750 --> 52:21.210 And boy, if any people have suffered, it is the Jewish people. 52:21.890 --> 52:24.870 It is the nation of Israel, all down through history have suffered. 52:25.650 --> 52:29.330 And they said, look, we are the suffering messiah. 52:29.770 --> 52:33.510 We have suffered so much, we have taken the sins of the world upon ourselves, 52:33.890 --> 52:36.430 and God has punished us for the sins of the world. 52:37.070 --> 52:40.470 So we don't need a suffering messiah, we are the suffering messiah. 52:40.470 --> 52:45.290 So they started to ingrain in young people from childhood up, when the messiah comes, 52:45.390 --> 52:48.030 he will be a reigning political messiah. 52:49.150 --> 52:52.130 And you see this in the conversation of the disciples. 52:52.590 --> 52:57.410 Did you ever wonder why it was so hard for them to understand what Jesus taught? 52:58.210 --> 53:02.770 For example, Lord, is it now that you are going to set up your kingdom? 53:04.370 --> 53:07.490 Were they thinking of a suffering messiah who is going to go across and be crucified 53:07.490 --> 53:07.950 and buried? 53:08.470 --> 53:08.950 No! 53:09.570 --> 53:13.730 They were thinking of a reigning political messiah that every Jewish young lad had 53:13.730 --> 53:16.450 ingrained into their hearts and minds. 53:16.730 --> 53:18.750 Lord, can we reign in your right hand? 53:20.330 --> 53:22.190 Are they thinking of a suffering messiah? 53:22.490 --> 53:22.670 No. 53:22.990 --> 53:27.470 You see, the disciples really thought they were in on a good thing. 53:27.590 --> 53:28.130 They really did. 53:28.850 --> 53:30.610 They thought they were going to rule over everyone. 53:31.530 --> 53:32.790 And they were going to rule right away. 53:33.590 --> 53:35.350 And this is why they couldn't understand Jesus. 53:35.470 --> 53:37.390 He kept saying, I've got to go to Jerusalem. 53:37.990 --> 53:39.970 I'm going to be crucified and buried. 53:40.190 --> 53:41.890 But on the third day I'll be raising the dead. 53:42.810 --> 53:45.550 That was so foreign to their way of thinking. 53:46.410 --> 53:49.430 And what happened was, they would say, no Lord, you can't. 53:49.630 --> 53:50.230 Don't go there. 53:50.350 --> 53:51.550 And they tried to protect him. 53:51.730 --> 53:52.690 He said, you don't understand. 53:53.110 --> 53:54.590 I've got to do the will of the Father. 53:54.690 --> 53:57.130 I've got to go and I'm going to be crucified and buried. 53:58.070 --> 54:00.950 Well, a Jewish young person had no concept of the messiah dying. 54:02.310 --> 54:08.570 And this is why when Christ went there and he got crucified and buried, they were 54:08.570 --> 54:09.430 totally discouraged. 54:10.290 --> 54:12.270 I mean, their heart had been cut out. 54:13.030 --> 54:16.630 And they just went and hid themselves, many in their own homes, totally 54:16.630 --> 54:17.630 despondent. 54:18.650 --> 54:20.950 I mean, did you ever think why they were so despondent? 54:21.210 --> 54:22.690 If they knew he was going to be raising the dead. 54:22.870 --> 54:25.410 They had no inkling that he was going to be raising the dead. 54:25.570 --> 54:26.750 They couldn't understand that. 54:27.330 --> 54:30.050 And this is why it was so hard for them afterwards. 54:30.050 --> 54:31.010 They weren't believers. 54:31.470 --> 54:33.710 They didn't instantly believe in the resurrection. 54:34.210 --> 54:39.690 Even Thomas said, I'm not going to believe unless I put my finger in his wounds. 54:40.170 --> 54:41.450 Now, I can identify with Thomas. 54:42.430 --> 54:44.970 And Jesus said, stretch forth your finger. 54:46.790 --> 54:50.450 See, they were convinced beyond what they'd been taught their whole lifetime. 54:52.750 --> 54:55.170 Yes, a lot of people have died for a great cause. 54:55.810 --> 54:58.470 But their great cause died on the cross. 54:58.470 --> 54:59.730 What happened? 55:00.310 --> 55:01.510 I struggle with this. 55:01.830 --> 55:04.030 What happened that literally changed their lives? 55:07.010 --> 55:13.170 For me, I am convinced that what we have here in the Bible is not only what was 55:13.170 --> 55:15.490 written down 2,000 years ago. 55:16.710 --> 55:19.490 But what was written down was true. 55:19.990 --> 55:22.650 This is what Jesus said and what Jesus did. 55:23.030 --> 55:26.190 And I would stake the lives of the apostles on that. 55:26.190 --> 55:31.150 They went through the test of death to determine their veracity. 55:31.510 --> 55:33.850 So I can hold this book in my hands. 55:34.490 --> 55:36.830 And I am convinced I can trust it. 55:36.950 --> 55:38.470 It is God's Word. 55:38.870 --> 55:44.250 And it's a rendering of God's heart and mind and His truth about each one of us 55:44.250 --> 55:45.890 and our relationship with Him. 55:46.550 --> 55:47.910 It is the Word of God. 55:48.230 --> 55:49.410 I can trust it. 55:57.750 --> 56:00.110 You are the reason. 56:00.690 --> 56:01.270 You are the kingdom. 56:01.550 --> 56:02.590 You are the truth. 56:03.410 --> 56:06.310 I cannot get past the evidence for you. 56:15.110 --> 56:18.790 I can't get past the evidence.