WEBVTT 00:03.820 --> 00:08.920 Shroud of Turin Thank you. 00:18.280 --> 00:22.960 Well, as you've heard, I was the official documenting photographer for the Shroud of 00:22.960 --> 00:24.240 Turin Research Project. 00:25.120 --> 00:31.080 Shroud of Turin Research Project was the first and only scientific team ever to be 00:31.080 --> 00:35.580 given permission to do an in-depth examination of the Shroud of Turin. 00:35.580 --> 00:41.640 Now, I have to tell you that I just finished a six-week lecture tour. 00:42.120 --> 00:48.300 Three states, twelve cities, twenty-two lectures, all of them two hours or more, 00:48.640 --> 00:50.280 and all of them extemporaneous. 00:51.020 --> 00:54.780 I often do eight-hour seminars on the Shroud of Turin. 00:54.860 --> 01:02.860 Again, no notes, no lecture notes of any kind, but fifteen minutes is hard. 01:03.600 --> 01:09.060 And so, you'll have to forgive me, but there was no way that I could do this. 01:09.500 --> 01:14.860 You know, it's not hard to get me to start talking, but it's hard to get me to stop. 01:15.380 --> 01:19.440 So, you'll forgive me that I brought some notes with me, and I'm going to have to 01:19.440 --> 01:23.540 refer to them just so that I stay on time and make sure that I do it correctly. 01:24.100 --> 01:26.060 So, there it is. 01:26.240 --> 01:30.160 That's that piece of cloth that got into my life thirty-five years ago. 01:31.940 --> 01:38.740 Well, as a professional photographer, I specialized in scientific, medical, 01:38.880 --> 01:40.540 and technical kinds of issues. 01:41.200 --> 01:46.000 So, I had the skills and the qualifications that were necessary to be a 01:46.000 --> 01:47.760 part of the team that examined the Shroud. 01:49.720 --> 01:54.540 But when they first asked me to do this, the first thing I said was, no, 01:55.260 --> 01:55.880 no way. 01:56.580 --> 01:58.260 And why did I refuse? 01:58.520 --> 02:00.320 Well, the answer is simple. 02:01.260 --> 02:05.780 I was very uncomfortable with the subject matter because I was born and raised in an 02:05.780 --> 02:07.000 Orthodox Jewish home. 02:07.080 --> 02:08.640 Now, I want to be clear about that. 02:09.560 --> 02:14.880 I am not a practicing Jew at this point in my life, but I was for that first thirteen 02:14.880 --> 02:15.400 years. 02:16.260 --> 02:21.240 Both my parents immigrated to America from Poland when they were little kids, 02:21.360 --> 02:22.620 just before World War II. 02:23.140 --> 02:26.920 And so, my question and the question that went through my mind at the time was, 02:27.200 --> 02:31.640 why would a Jewish man want to get involved with what is probably, 02:31.840 --> 02:34.700 arguably, the most important relic of Christianity? 02:35.280 --> 02:38.360 At that moment in my life, I couldn't see any benefit to being involved. 02:39.340 --> 02:44.180 Well, not only that, I was a total skeptic and figured that the Shroud was probably 02:44.180 --> 02:48.080 some form of a painting, which was the conventional wisdom in 1978. 02:48.800 --> 02:53.660 I fully expected to get to Turin, take a quick look, see the paint and the 02:53.660 --> 02:54.700 brush strokes and go home. 02:54.780 --> 02:57.120 I even stupidly said that publicly somewhere. 02:57.880 --> 03:01.140 And, of course, for the last thirty-five years, I've been living to regret those 03:01.140 --> 03:01.440 words. 03:03.540 --> 03:08.560 Anyway, in the end, I viewed this whole thing, and this is terrible to admit this 03:08.560 --> 03:12.040 close to the Vatican, this was going to be a free trip to Italy. 03:13.120 --> 03:14.080 That's what I thought. 03:15.200 --> 03:19.880 But, you know, my attitude was immature because I was only thirty-two years old at 03:19.880 --> 03:20.280 the time. 03:20.640 --> 03:24.880 My son just turned thirty-three, and I'm still waiting for him to grow up. 03:25.420 --> 03:31.320 So, I can't even imagine where my head was in those days. 03:32.220 --> 03:37.500 In the end, of course, I did join the team because the image on the Shroud has some 03:37.500 --> 03:41.660 fascinating properties that piqued my scientific curiosity. 03:42.560 --> 03:44.700 But I still tried to quit twice again. 03:45.700 --> 03:51.260 And, in fact, as our team grew, a few men from the Jet Propulsion Labs 03:51.260 --> 03:53.860 became members of our team. 03:54.280 --> 03:57.720 One of them was a man named Don Lin, may he rest in peace. 03:58.620 --> 04:03.140 Don was an imaging expert from NASA, so he was my hero immediately. 04:04.040 --> 04:10.420 And he was the head of imaging on Voyager and Viking and Mariner and Galileo, 04:10.480 --> 04:11.560 you might have heard of some of them. 04:12.760 --> 04:18.060 So, I am pretty sure that any professional photographer, given that opportunity, 04:19.060 --> 04:21.120 would have been honored to be a member of that team. 04:21.580 --> 04:27.060 But I remember asking Don, at one point during our planning, we planned for 04:27.060 --> 04:29.940 nineteen months before we came to Turin to examine the Shroud. 04:30.880 --> 04:34.760 I remember asking him, I said, Don, what's a nice Jewish boy like me 04:34.760 --> 04:35.760 doing on this team? 04:37.040 --> 04:41.500 And Don, who was a good Catholic, looked me right in the eye and he said, 04:41.640 --> 04:44.600 have you forgotten that the man in question was a Jew? 04:44.740 --> 04:48.640 And I said, no, Don, that's probably the only thing I knew about Jesus, 04:48.820 --> 04:49.520 that he was a Jew. 04:50.860 --> 04:55.480 And then he said, and of course this is where Don, I think God, was speaking to me 04:55.480 --> 04:56.040 through his lips. 04:56.120 --> 04:59.340 He looked at me and he said, oh, so you don't think God would want one of 04:59.340 --> 05:00.700 his chosen people on our team? 05:01.600 --> 05:02.760 And I laughed. 05:02.860 --> 05:05.100 I said, no, Don, I never thought that. 05:05.100 --> 05:11.220 And so then Don gave me what perhaps may be the best advice I've ever been given. 05:11.880 --> 05:17.500 He said, Barry, go to Turin, do the best job you can do. 05:18.540 --> 05:22.500 God doesn't tell us in advance what the plan is, but one day you'll know. 05:23.540 --> 05:26.920 You know, and on those words, I stayed on that team. 05:27.600 --> 05:31.140 Because truer and more profound words have never been spoken. 05:32.060 --> 05:36.600 Don was right, and I've never regretted taking your advice and staying on that 05:36.600 --> 05:36.920 team. 05:37.720 --> 05:43.000 Now, the test we performed went on over the years that we did it and then 05:43.000 --> 05:47.260 evaluated it, went on to ultimately prove that the shroud was not a painting, 05:47.940 --> 05:50.220 not a scorch, or not a photograph. 05:50.460 --> 05:54.600 These were the kind of conventional wisdom things that people had. 05:54.840 --> 05:59.560 And so all the tests that we planned basically were to test for those kinds of 05:59.560 --> 05:59.940 things. 06:01.440 --> 06:04.760 At the end of our team, we published, at the end of our three years, 06:04.860 --> 06:09.240 we published our work in peer-reviewed scientific journals, credible ones, 06:09.300 --> 06:09.880 I might add. 06:10.260 --> 06:13.980 Now with the Internet, we have journals that are, the only thing they review is 06:13.980 --> 06:15.300 your check to make sure it clears. 06:16.060 --> 06:20.440 And they're not exactly a high standard as the ones that we had to deal with. 06:22.000 --> 06:26.940 But ideally, we went there to answer the question, how is the image formed? 06:26.980 --> 06:28.900 That was our primary purpose. 06:28.900 --> 06:34.360 And in the end, however, we could not determine an image formation mechanism 06:34.360 --> 06:38.460 that could make an image with the properties on the Shroud of Turin. 06:39.340 --> 06:44.700 Our collective work still forms the primary database of literature that exists 06:44.700 --> 06:49.960 in the peer-reviewed science that points to the authenticity of the Shroud of 06:49.960 --> 06:50.280 Turin. 06:51.800 --> 06:56.680 However, even with all that, it still took another 18 years before I was convinced. 06:56.680 --> 06:58.640 I'm not a fast sell. 06:59.420 --> 07:06.860 But in 1995, after years of actually resistance on my part, world-renowned 07:06.860 --> 07:13.460 blood expert, Dr. Alan Adler, who was truly maybe the foremost blood expert in 07:13.460 --> 07:18.780 the world, and also Jewish, I might add, was on the phone with me, and he answered 07:18.780 --> 07:22.500 the final question that had kept me from accepting the Shroud as authentic. 07:23.440 --> 07:25.080 I was on the phone with him. 07:25.080 --> 07:30.660 I wasn't convinced the Shroud was real, because the blood on the Shroud is still 07:30.660 --> 07:31.020 red. 07:31.700 --> 07:38.860 And old blood is supposed to turn black or brown, sometimes just within a matter of 07:38.860 --> 07:39.240 hours. 07:39.520 --> 07:41.680 And that really stopped me. 07:43.420 --> 07:45.660 Al then looked at me over the phone. 07:45.740 --> 07:50.540 He didn't look at me, but he spoke to me, and he said, Barry, he had found this 07:50.540 --> 07:53.260 large amount of bilirubin in the blood. 07:53.260 --> 07:58.780 Now, somebody who's been tortured, like Jesus was, beaten the night before in 07:58.780 --> 08:05.040 the Garden of Gethsemane, then the next day scourged and ultimately capped with a 08:05.040 --> 08:10.620 capper crown of thorns, ultimately crucified and speared, people who have 08:10.620 --> 08:13.380 been tortured that way usually go into shock. 08:14.020 --> 08:18.480 The liver floods the bloodstream with bilirubin, and Al told me that blood of 08:18.480 --> 08:20.140 that nature stays red forever. 08:22.780 --> 08:29.760 Suddenly and unexpectedly, I realized that the last bit of evidence had come in, 08:30.020 --> 08:34.260 and I had no choice but to accept that the Shroud was authentic. 08:35.560 --> 08:39.280 I immediately kind of remember, I was a big Arthur Conan Doyle fan when I 08:39.280 --> 08:42.660 was young, and I remember Conan Doyle once said through the lips of Sherlock Holmes, 08:43.320 --> 08:47.500 if you eliminate all the possibilities, whatever remains, no matter how 08:47.500 --> 08:50.320 improbable, is most likely the truth. 08:52.160 --> 08:54.080 Then I remembered Occam's razor. 08:54.700 --> 08:59.080 Occam's razor is that the simplest answer is most likely the correct one. 09:00.220 --> 09:06.040 So I was left with only one conclusion, that this cloth could only be the 09:06.040 --> 09:09.540 authentic burial shroud of the historic Jesus. 09:10.440 --> 09:11.800 It was even a surprise to me. 09:11.940 --> 09:12.920 I was shocked. 09:13.740 --> 09:15.740 Because after all those years of resistance, you know, you think, 09:15.740 --> 09:17.340 well, I'm finished with this. 09:18.140 --> 09:19.360 That wasn't to be the case. 09:20.900 --> 09:24.080 Now, over the years, I had noticed, over all those years, I had noticed that 09:24.080 --> 09:29.120 the media reports on the Shroud were often misleading or even completely false. 09:29.940 --> 09:32.800 And I had been privileged to study it firsthand. 09:34.140 --> 09:38.160 And I had access to what I ultimately realized was inside information. 09:38.740 --> 09:40.720 So I knew the truth about the Shroud. 09:41.360 --> 09:44.900 And because of my media experience, I knew better than to believe the nonsense 09:44.900 --> 09:46.200 I was reading in the paper. 09:48.640 --> 09:54.020 Now, there were probably a billion people on this planet who had more right to be in 09:54.020 --> 09:55.380 that room than I did. 09:57.480 --> 10:03.220 And yet, there I was in 1978, God dragging me, kicking and screaming, keeping me on 10:03.220 --> 10:03.700 that team. 10:05.800 --> 10:09.560 And at that moment in time, I realized that it brought with it a great 10:09.560 --> 10:11.840 responsibility, this privilege I had been given. 10:12.800 --> 10:17.280 And it was something of an epiphany because I finally came to realize that I 10:17.280 --> 10:18.640 wasn't in that room for me. 10:19.340 --> 10:21.480 I was in that room for you. 10:23.300 --> 10:26.800 Now, I knew the truth about the Shroud and was frustrated because my Christian 10:26.800 --> 10:29.580 brothers and sisters were not getting that truth. 10:30.680 --> 10:35.880 And to me, all of our team members had always been doing this simply about the 10:35.880 --> 10:36.260 truth. 10:37.600 --> 10:43.680 Now, in 1996, I got a phone call. 10:44.280 --> 10:47.120 And I apologize to the interpreter, this isn't in the script. 10:48.080 --> 10:49.840 I got a phone call from a friend. 10:50.340 --> 10:53.860 And my friend said, you know that Shroud thing that you're involved with? 10:54.700 --> 10:58.140 And I said, yeah, I know that Shroud thing that I'm involved with. 10:58.620 --> 11:02.100 And he said, well, you know, it turns out that's a photograph made by Leonardo da 11:02.100 --> 11:02.500 Vinci. 11:03.840 --> 11:04.980 Leonardo da Vinci. 11:04.980 --> 11:06.740 And, you know, I'm not an expert in history. 11:06.900 --> 11:09.060 We had some real historians that we worked with. 11:09.220 --> 11:10.500 And I always left it to them. 11:11.600 --> 11:15.460 But I remember saying to him, at first I thought he was joking, but then I realized 11:15.460 --> 11:16.000 he was serious. 11:16.100 --> 11:19.600 So I said, excuse me, but where did you get that information? 11:20.280 --> 11:23.860 And he said, well, my wife and I were checking out at the grocery store. 11:24.880 --> 11:28.800 And there on one of the counters was a tabloid, the Inquirer. 11:29.300 --> 11:35.420 And I had this epiphany, as I mentioned, and I realized that the public just 11:35.420 --> 11:36.560 doesn't have access. 11:37.500 --> 11:45.680 So, at that moment in time, I built shroud .com, which has since become the oldest, 11:45.940 --> 11:49.020 largest, and most extensive resource on the Internet. 11:49.520 --> 11:52.040 We just celebrated our 17th anniversary. 11:52.360 --> 11:57.100 And although that says 3.8 million, we're well over 4 million since I wrote 11:57.100 --> 11:59.320 this, put that slide in this lecture. 12:00.340 --> 12:07.420 And so, we had our 17th anniversary this year, and I also got about, oh, 12:07.660 --> 12:12.080 I'm thinking, a thousand emails a day now, some days a little less. 12:12.540 --> 12:16.660 I was on CNN a few weeks ago, a couple thousand emails came in. 12:16.900 --> 12:18.740 So it's turned into a full-time job. 12:19.380 --> 12:23.500 Anyway, as a matter of fact, people often say, hey, you know, you're number one on 12:23.500 --> 12:23.780 Google. 12:24.160 --> 12:26.940 And my answer is always the same, you know, we're five years older than 12:26.940 --> 12:27.180 Google. 12:28.680 --> 12:29.660 Because we are. 12:31.420 --> 12:37.440 Most importantly, I guess, now I realize that this work is the fulfillment of that 12:37.440 --> 12:42.560 obligation that I felt that came with the great privilege that I was given in 1978. 12:43.560 --> 12:46.780 And in the end, it's also become my legacy. 12:47.240 --> 12:49.060 I've had a long career and done a lot of stuff. 12:49.680 --> 12:51.860 But it's come and it's gone, and it really means nothing. 12:52.600 --> 12:56.960 And now, I'm doing something that in the end will live beyond me. 12:57.600 --> 13:01.280 That means my grandchildren maybe can show their grandchildren something their 13:01.280 --> 13:03.440 great-grandpa did back in the old days. 13:06.200 --> 13:13.400 Anyway, in 2009, I formed the Shroud of Turin Education and Research Association, 13:13.540 --> 13:14.260 or STERRA Inc. 13:14.920 --> 13:16.660 That's a non-profit organization. 13:16.840 --> 13:19.140 For 14 years, I supported the website myself. 13:19.920 --> 13:23.180 And it eventually got to be a point where I needed to go non-profit. 13:23.180 --> 13:28.020 I think a lot of people, and I'm going to be candid, a lot of people may have been a 13:28.020 --> 13:29.440 little suspicious of my motives. 13:30.280 --> 13:35.960 You know, a Jewish guy, and I'm actually permitted to sell things, photographs of 13:35.960 --> 13:36.380 the Shroud. 13:36.520 --> 13:37.300 No offense. 13:37.380 --> 13:39.140 I'm not offended by that, I understand. 13:40.180 --> 13:41.780 And so, I formed STERRA Inc. 13:42.340 --> 13:46.840 to help preserve this information, to support the website, so that in the 13:46.840 --> 13:51.780 future, future researchers will have the opportunity to have access to the 13:51.780 --> 13:56.000 materials that we collected, and I've collected since, so that future research 13:56.000 --> 13:58.520 on the Shroud doesn't have to start from scratch again. 13:59.640 --> 14:02.320 And that ensures that we remain free to everyone. 14:02.440 --> 14:04.580 Still no advertising on shroud.com. 14:05.460 --> 14:07.800 Now, there's our page. 14:07.900 --> 14:08.760 I'm sorry I'm a little behind. 14:09.280 --> 14:13.220 Now, in case you missed it, that's the topic I'm supposed to be talking about. 14:14.120 --> 14:16.520 I know it hasn't seemed like that at all yet. 14:17.360 --> 14:22.060 Now, the problem I have is that I'm not really a scientist myself. 14:22.240 --> 14:23.460 I'm a technical photographer. 14:24.260 --> 14:28.780 So I cannot speak for the world of science in general when addressing this issue. 14:29.540 --> 14:32.940 Although I personally believe, and this is my personal point of view, 14:33.080 --> 14:39.160 that science is simply man's attempt to understand God's creation. 14:39.940 --> 14:41.140 That's the way I see it. 14:42.060 --> 14:47.720 So, in this particular lecture, I can only share my personal point of view 14:47.720 --> 14:50.020 with you about this specific project. 14:50.440 --> 14:51.640 And that's how I used to look. 14:52.640 --> 14:54.420 Notice that there was a lot more hair. 14:55.060 --> 14:55.820 Well, I still have a lot. 14:55.860 --> 14:57.480 It's just slid down the back a bit. 14:59.040 --> 15:01.100 And it has changed color a tad. 15:04.400 --> 15:10.420 So, I can start by telling you that, first of all, the church was very gracious 15:10.420 --> 15:15.600 from the first day and in no way interfered with our scientific work. 15:16.140 --> 15:20.020 They even allowed us to own and keep the data we collected, which is why I'm 15:20.020 --> 15:23.280 permitted to make copies and make photographs of the shroud available. 15:24.480 --> 15:29.380 But the STIRP team member who really put it into the right words was Dr. John 15:29.380 --> 15:30.880 Heller, also gone now. 15:31.980 --> 15:36.940 He put it far more eloquently in his 1983 book about our team, and I'm just going to 15:36.940 --> 15:37.420 quote him. 15:37.580 --> 15:43.500 He said, Though it was believed that there would be a confrontation between science 15:43.500 --> 15:46.240 and religion, none occurred. 15:47.020 --> 15:51.340 Rather, the relationship was harmonious and synergistic. 15:52.780 --> 15:58.800 So, there was never a conflict between our team and the authorities in Turin or faith 15:58.800 --> 15:59.340 in general. 16:00.680 --> 16:04.440 Now, I'm sure that's an important part of why our team, in the end, was so 16:04.440 --> 16:04.980 successful. 16:07.040 --> 16:12.280 Now, in the end, however, I consider myself kind of a living example of 16:12.280 --> 16:14.680 religious freedom and scientific research. 16:15.500 --> 16:19.460 In my 35-year involvement with the shroud, I've always been treated with great 16:19.460 --> 16:23.160 respect by not only Christians, but Muslims and Jews alike. 16:24.020 --> 16:28.680 All have shown an understanding and a consideration of my position, somewhat 16:28.680 --> 16:29.580 unique, I might add. 16:30.500 --> 16:36.320 And even the atheists and skeptics that I often will debate on TV shows and radio 16:36.320 --> 16:39.100 shows show a grudging respect for me. 16:39.100 --> 16:44.100 I guess they have come to understand that I'm only telling the truth. 16:47.160 --> 16:49.940 Ironically, I now teach a course at the Athenaeum. 16:51.580 --> 16:52.700 Imagine that... 16:52.700 --> 16:56.340 a Jewish man teaching future priests about the Shroud of Turin. 16:57.980 --> 17:00.920 Thanks, Father Gara, I know you're out there somewhere. 17:01.120 --> 17:03.040 The man who organized this event. 17:03.820 --> 17:07.320 Although he did come to my house and spend three days there checking me out. 17:08.520 --> 17:11.240 I'm sure he did, and you can ask him later. 17:12.100 --> 17:15.160 Anyway, but the story doesn't really end there. 17:16.160 --> 17:21.160 Shortly after building the website and stating publicly that I believe the Shroud 17:21.160 --> 17:26.520 was authentic, based on the scientific evidence, people started asking me a new 17:26.520 --> 17:27.000 question. 17:27.580 --> 17:28.940 And you know what that question was? 17:29.380 --> 17:30.420 What do you believe? 17:31.300 --> 17:33.180 They were asking about my faith. 17:34.240 --> 17:39.400 Well, at age 50, I was forced, for the first time as an adult, 17:39.840 --> 17:42.460 to confront my own beliefs about God. 17:45.180 --> 17:48.380 I'd walked away from Judaism when I was 13. 17:48.460 --> 17:48.860 That's me. 17:50.220 --> 17:53.780 That's my bar mitzvah picture, the one that mothers hang on their walls 17:53.780 --> 17:54.480 to this day. 17:55.860 --> 17:58.900 55 years later, it's still hanging on my mother's wall. 17:59.960 --> 18:03.480 But at age 13, I walked away from Judaism and never looked back. 18:04.600 --> 18:06.700 God was not a part of my life. 18:08.120 --> 18:09.560 I never even thought about religion. 18:11.360 --> 18:16.320 Now, at age 50, I was being forced to confront that which I had avoided most of 18:16.320 --> 18:17.160 my adult life. 18:18.400 --> 18:20.940 I was raised in a very traditional Orthodox Jewish home. 18:21.620 --> 18:23.300 Both my parents, born in Poland. 18:24.280 --> 18:25.560 Grandparents lived with us. 18:26.020 --> 18:28.400 Two sets of dishes, two sets of silverware. 18:28.820 --> 18:29.800 Orthodox Jewish home. 18:31.160 --> 18:35.980 And so, I had to look in my own heart for the first time. 18:37.620 --> 18:45.620 And I had rejected all that before, but I did look into my heart, and to my 18:45.620 --> 18:52.220 shock, I found that God had been there all along, just waiting for me to look and 18:52.220 --> 18:52.940 acknowledge Him. 18:54.120 --> 18:59.640 So, with that knowledge, I rediscovered my own faith. 19:00.180 --> 19:01.740 It only took, what, 50 years? 19:02.720 --> 19:04.180 Better late than never, I guess. 19:04.800 --> 19:09.060 And it's still hard for me to believe that 35 years have passed, and now I'm called 19:09.060 --> 19:11.100 an expert on the Shroud of Turin. 19:11.600 --> 19:12.920 How did that happen? 19:14.040 --> 19:15.660 This was not my idea. 19:16.460 --> 19:18.120 I didn't decide to do this. 19:18.800 --> 19:21.780 Like I said earlier, I was dragged along, kicking and screaming. 19:22.260 --> 19:23.520 I didn't want to do this. 19:23.520 --> 19:30.800 And yet, here I am, I'm standing in the Vatican, addressing this audience. 19:31.660 --> 19:32.180 Unbelievable. 19:33.120 --> 19:38.960 Of course, over the years, the Shroud has brought me to places I never thought I 19:38.960 --> 19:39.380 would be. 19:40.620 --> 19:46.340 Last year, I lectured on the Shroud of Turin, in the little village in Poland 19:46.340 --> 19:47.760 where my mother was born. 19:48.860 --> 19:55.360 Now, ironically, that little village in Poland has this little Catholic Church. 19:55.500 --> 19:59.920 And my mother, left at age 7, and when I asked her, before I went to that village, 20:00.040 --> 20:03.380 to kind of find my roots, I said, what do you remember of that village? 20:04.080 --> 20:09.840 And that little girl, that little Jewish girl, her fondest recollection of the 20:09.840 --> 20:15.920 little village of Wieschnitz in Poland was the Catholic Church, that was down by the 20:15.920 --> 20:16.140 river. 20:17.000 --> 20:20.420 So last year, I lectured in that church, and called her, and I said, where do you 20:20.420 --> 20:21.000 think I am? 20:21.000 --> 20:22.180 She said, you're in Poland. 20:22.640 --> 20:24.480 I said, no, but where specifically? 20:24.780 --> 20:25.380 Well, I don't know. 20:25.880 --> 20:27.820 I'm in that little church that you remember. 20:28.460 --> 20:30.020 Now, what an awesome opportunity. 20:32.100 --> 20:36.440 And yet, none of that could have happened if it weren't for the Shroud of Turin. 20:38.500 --> 20:41.460 Later this year, I'm going to make my first trip to Jerusalem. 20:41.960 --> 20:45.640 Now, for years, my friends and colleagues have all said to me, Barry, when are you 20:45.640 --> 20:46.440 going to go to Israel? 20:47.380 --> 20:49.180 And my answer has always been the same. 20:50.240 --> 20:52.640 If God wants me to go, He'll arrange it. 20:55.820 --> 20:58.060 Well, ironically, I'm going to jump ahead. 21:00.000 --> 21:02.460 Ironically, guess who's the one who arranged it? 21:03.400 --> 21:06.940 Now, isn't it ironic for a Jew to go to the Holy Land for the first time in his 21:06.940 --> 21:09.240 life, and it's arranged by a Catholic priest? 21:09.900 --> 21:11.760 Well, not just any Catholic priest. 21:12.280 --> 21:12.720 That one. 21:15.480 --> 21:21.300 So, I'm really honored to be a part of that and Father Gera is my friend and my 21:21.300 --> 21:24.780 brother and is responsible for bringing me here. 21:26.840 --> 21:32.700 Now, I truly believe that only God would think to choose a Jewish man who had no 21:32.700 --> 21:37.300 emotional attachment to Jesus, who was a total skeptic, and with a pretty 21:37.300 --> 21:41.260 negative attitude, I might add, and put him on that team. 21:42.520 --> 21:47.560 Now, ironically, I learned as a child that the Jews were a chosen people. 21:47.560 --> 21:49.360 I've heard that since I was a little kid. 21:50.180 --> 21:51.660 I never felt very chosen. 21:52.820 --> 21:53.900 But now I do. 21:54.920 --> 21:59.740 Because of the Shroud, for the first time in my life, I get it. 22:00.920 --> 22:04.400 And yet, all God asked me to do, and it was very simple, tell the truth, 22:04.520 --> 22:04.660 Barry. 22:05.760 --> 22:12.300 Now, if God had said to me, Barry, go out and make up stories to convince 22:12.300 --> 22:16.000 people that the Shroud's authentic, I would have failed. 22:18.620 --> 22:22.340 In Vancouver, British Columbia, two years ago, a gentleman came up after 22:22.340 --> 22:25.460 one of my lectures, one of my extemporaneous two-hour lectures, 22:25.540 --> 22:29.040 I might add, and he looked me right in the eye and he said, Mr. Schwartz, 22:29.080 --> 22:31.880 that was a great lecture, you know, but you'll never convince me. 22:32.760 --> 22:36.200 And I looked him right in the eye and I said, what makes you think I even care 22:36.200 --> 22:36.920 what you believe? 22:37.580 --> 22:38.900 That's between you and God. 22:39.180 --> 22:39.860 Take it up with him. 22:40.380 --> 22:45.280 And so that's when I realized that the idea of trying to convince people is not a 22:45.280 --> 22:45.900 good idea. 22:46.360 --> 22:49.120 Now, I'm sure in the early days, I probably tried. 22:49.780 --> 22:54.400 But now, I just put the facts out there and let people decide for themselves. 22:55.540 --> 23:01.320 Now, I usually end my lectures by answering the question that I posed kind 23:01.320 --> 23:04.260 of at the beginning, what's a Jewish man like me doing involved with the most 23:04.260 --> 23:05.720 important relic of Christianity? 23:06.800 --> 23:07.240 Why? 23:08.100 --> 23:10.960 Well, it took me a long time to figure out the answer. 23:11.780 --> 23:12.820 But now it's obvious. 23:14.280 --> 23:15.700 God wanted me to do it. 23:16.580 --> 23:21.380 Isn't it funny how God always seems to pick a Jew to be the messenger? 23:22.400 --> 23:23.480 I'm the messenger. 23:24.300 --> 23:31.360 So with that thought, all I can say, how many Jews can claim that it was the 23:31.360 --> 23:33.860 Shroud of Turin that brought them back to their faith in God? 23:34.620 --> 23:35.200 I can. 23:35.860 --> 23:43.120 So with that, all I can say is, if I'm not an example of religious freedom 23:43.120 --> 23:46.480 and scientific research, I don't know what is. 23:47.040 --> 23:47.760 Thank you. 23:52.920 --> 23:53.800 Thank you, Barry.