WEBVTT 00:08.600 --> 00:12.500 It's a multinational of a particular kind, one you all know. 00:12.840 --> 00:14.100 Some of you may even visit it. 00:14.440 --> 00:17.960 It's present across the globe and on the corner of your street. 00:20.040 --> 00:21.400 The Catholic Church. 00:24.340 --> 00:36.120 With its hierarchy, its communication, and its very darkest secret, pedophilia. 00:37.500 --> 00:42.980 In Australia, 7% of priests are thought to have sexually abused minors, 4% in the 00:42.980 --> 00:43.720 United States. 00:45.160 --> 00:49.540 We discovered that clergymen found guilty of pedophilia are still active, 00:49.780 --> 00:51.180 often in contact with children. 00:55.060 --> 01:00.180 Thanks to internal documents, we'll reveal how church leaders protect priests accused 01:00.180 --> 01:08.200 of sexually abusing minors, by sending them from country to country, notably in 01:08.200 --> 01:08.580 Africa. 01:12.140 --> 01:20.220 Our investigation into these international exiles took us to Cameroon, to Argentina, 01:22.000 --> 01:26.860 to the United States, to France, and to Italy. 01:28.460 --> 01:33.020 During our travels, we established this unprecedented map, that regarding the 01:33.020 --> 01:36.000 transfers of priests involved in cases of pedophilia. 01:46.040 --> 01:50.940 And the victims number tens of thousands, marked with scars for the rest of their 01:50.940 --> 01:51.460 lives. 01:54.790 --> 01:57.950 Our investigations would lead us all the way to Pope Francis. 01:58.490 --> 02:02.750 We'll reveal how, when he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he tried to influence the 02:02.750 --> 02:04.030 Argentine Justice Department. 02:15.030 --> 02:19.210 We investigated the mysteries of the church, where, on the altar of truth, 02:19.650 --> 02:22.370 God's law seems to prevail over that of men. 02:30.670 --> 02:34.430 Our inquiry into the international transfers of priests accused of 02:34.430 --> 02:36.770 pedophilia, begins in the United States. 02:38.650 --> 02:43.370 We're in Chicago, in the shadow of this cathedral, to witness a very unique kind 02:43.370 --> 02:44.050 of protest. 02:51.990 --> 02:54.870 All are victims of pedophile priests. 02:59.420 --> 03:03.520 In their hands, portraits of them as children, when they were abused. 03:09.000 --> 03:14.680 In the U.S., 16,000 people have already lodged complaints for sexual abuse against 03:14.680 --> 03:15.480 Catholic priests. 03:20.400 --> 03:24.680 These victims have joined forces for the annual conference of their support group, 03:25.100 --> 03:28.820 SNAP, Survivor Network of Those Abused by Priests. 03:28.820 --> 03:29.380 Hello, 03:33.690 --> 03:33.930 everybody. 03:35.090 --> 03:37.050 Great to see you again. 03:38.250 --> 03:41.390 And I think it looks like we've got a bigger group than last year, which is even 03:41.390 --> 03:42.190 better news. 03:42.670 --> 03:45.750 So, how many of you are here for the first time? 03:49.790 --> 03:51.910 That looks like 40%. 03:51.910 --> 03:58.790 Remember that all of us here are survivors of sexual assaults and betrayals during 03:58.790 --> 03:59.390 our youth. 04:00.070 --> 04:03.890 So, if you're looking for an opportunity to share your experience with people who 04:03.890 --> 04:07.230 truly get it, this is the place. 04:09.190 --> 04:13.210 Recently, the organization has seen abuse victims from all over the world join its 04:13.210 --> 04:13.550 ranks. 04:13.870 --> 04:17.570 It has become the Internationale of Those Abused by the Church. 04:19.670 --> 04:24.390 My name is Miguel, I'm 34 years old, and I'm a survivor of sexual assaults by 04:24.390 --> 04:26.490 priests from Barcelona, Spain. 04:26.750 --> 04:32.150 When I was 16 years old, I was abused by the Catholic priest in charge of the group 04:32.150 --> 04:33.110 of young people I was attending. 04:33.630 --> 04:34.330 Where are you from? 04:34.810 --> 04:35.770 Santiago, Chile. 04:36.590 --> 04:37.890 I'm from Germany, from Berlin. 04:38.530 --> 04:42.730 I was sexually abused in Mexico when I was 14 years old. 04:42.730 --> 04:44.090 I'm actually from the Philippines. 04:44.510 --> 04:50.610 I was abused by a Jesuit for three years. 04:50.870 --> 04:52.050 I was 15 years old. 04:52.470 --> 04:56.250 I was abused as a teen for a long period of time. 04:56.350 --> 05:01.170 It was with an oblate priest, his name was Jack McCann, in Vancouver, Canada. 05:02.250 --> 05:04.070 Accounts from over 50 countries. 05:06.430 --> 05:11.010 At the end of the conference, we talked to one of the activists, Ann Barrett-Doyle. 05:12.170 --> 05:16.070 Thanks to reports from victims, SNAP is the only group to have been able 05:16.070 --> 05:20.890 to establish a list of priests worldwide allegedly involved in pedophilia cases. 05:21.490 --> 05:27.610 We only include those priests who have been accused of child sexual abuse in a 05:27.610 --> 05:29.670 credible public document. 05:29.950 --> 05:35.170 It has to be either a court document that's publicly accessible or a mainstream 05:35.170 --> 05:36.430 news outlet. 05:37.450 --> 05:39.810 She began her work 14 years ago. 05:41.930 --> 05:46.490 In the States, these activists publish the names and photos of accused priests on the 05:46.490 --> 05:51.150 internet, to try to ensure they never come into contact with children again. 05:52.590 --> 05:55.550 This is just the letter A, and it just keeps going. 05:56.750 --> 05:58.570 How many names at the end, so far? 05:58.690 --> 06:03.490 So, all in the entire database, we have 4,400 names. 06:04.010 --> 06:06.130 So do you have any French names in the list? 06:06.430 --> 06:07.770 We do have several. 06:08.670 --> 06:14.870 So Father Revoy is a very troubling case, because he abused this young boy and 06:14.870 --> 06:21.930 Mario's Inuit boy did report the abuse, eventually within statute. 06:22.850 --> 06:26.590 But Revoy was fled in 1993. 06:27.110 --> 06:31.510 It somehow spirited him back to France, where he lives safely now. 06:32.190 --> 06:37.870 That's not the case of his victim, who took his own life in December of 2012. 06:38.710 --> 06:43.350 To avoid justice, one French priest accused of the sexual abuse of minors is 06:43.350 --> 06:46.110 thought to have fled Canada and be hiding in France. 06:46.810 --> 06:48.890 The story barely seems credible. 06:51.550 --> 06:55.190 We contacted the sister of one of the priest's presumed victims. 06:57.770 --> 07:02.110 Thérèse Tungelik speaks to us from Northern Canada, deep in Inuit territory. 07:02.490 --> 07:05.710 Her brother, Marius Tungelik, committed suicide five years ago. 07:06.010 --> 07:08.390 He had filed a complaint against the French priest. 07:08.750 --> 07:12.730 She has sent us some old photos of her and her kid brother, and one of Father Revoy. 07:12.950 --> 07:15.090 How old will be Marius today? 07:16.330 --> 07:18.670 He will be 58 today. 07:19.070 --> 07:25.170 Do you think what happened to him when he was a child was responsible for the abuse? 07:25.170 --> 07:28.090 Was he responsible about why he decided to die? 07:30.290 --> 07:30.850 Of course. 07:32.410 --> 07:33.630 Of course. 07:34.270 --> 07:36.050 My best friend never left him. 07:37.470 --> 07:42.550 Even though he became an adult, he could not sleep in the dark. 07:43.470 --> 07:44.930 He was still afraid. 07:47.470 --> 07:52.470 Do you think Marius was the only victim of Mr. Revoy? 07:52.470 --> 07:53.590 No. 07:55.630 --> 07:57.850 I know some more people. 07:58.750 --> 08:02.470 He has ruined so many people's lives. 08:03.050 --> 08:05.150 This man doesn't deserve to be free. 08:06.150 --> 08:14.510 If we can get Revoy behind bars on Canadian soil, it will be a message to the 08:14.510 --> 08:20.050 other priests who think they might get away with things like this. 08:22.630 --> 08:26.750 We get our hands on the warrant issued to the Canadian police for Father Revoy's 08:26.750 --> 08:27.250 arrest. 08:29.410 --> 08:32.310 They've been after the priest since 1998. 08:34.970 --> 08:39.730 On it, we discover the name of Marius, but also two other boys, made anonymous by 08:39.730 --> 08:41.130 the police with black lines. 08:42.890 --> 08:46.150 A girl of 14 is also among the alleged victims. 08:46.150 --> 08:50.590 In all, the priest is thought to have abused four children. 08:52.810 --> 08:56.290 Finally, in the top left-hand corner, a vital piece of information. 08:56.910 --> 09:01.190 The name of the town where the priest is believed to be hiding, Goût, in France. 09:01.850 --> 09:05.970 A small town in the Vaucluse where there's a monastery belonging to his community. 09:07.810 --> 09:09.830 So we catch the train to Strasbourg. 09:10.790 --> 09:14.750 That's right, because in the meantime, we've got hold of some internal documents 09:14.750 --> 09:15.570 from his community. 09:16.190 --> 09:18.890 Father Revoy has been transferred several times. 09:21.570 --> 09:26.070 After Ariatte in Canada, he didn't stay in Goût as presumed by the Canadian police. 09:26.490 --> 09:30.590 He apparently went next to Turin near Lyon, and that's where we lost track of 09:30.590 --> 09:30.730 him. 09:33.710 --> 09:37.750 But after several months of inquiries, during a phone call, a priest from a 09:37.750 --> 09:41.270 prairie where Father Revoy had stayed, unwittingly gave us a new lead. 09:53.770 --> 09:58.750 The priest, wanted by the Canadian police for 19 years for sexually abusing four 09:58.750 --> 10:02.530 children, seemingly lives here, in Strasbourg, among his religious 10:02.530 --> 10:03.110 community. 10:05.710 --> 10:09.790 From now on, we'll film with a hidden camera. 10:11.830 --> 10:12.390 Hello. 10:14.090 --> 10:15.350 We're here to see Mr. Revoy. 10:15.950 --> 10:16.590 Mr. Revoy? 10:16.610 --> 10:16.710 Yes. 10:18.370 --> 10:19.590 I'll see if he's here. 10:21.030 --> 10:22.890 Our information was correct. 10:24.710 --> 10:25.690 Is everyone here? 10:27.150 --> 10:28.350 Is everyone here? 10:32.060 --> 10:35.140 The priest is here, at the end of the corridor. 10:41.250 --> 10:42.310 Hello, Mr. Revoy. 10:42.630 --> 10:42.870 Hello. 10:44.250 --> 10:46.230 Mathieu, Martin, nice to meet you. 10:46.230 --> 10:47.090 Can we sit down for a minute? 10:48.130 --> 10:49.510 Yes, it's dinner time. 10:50.450 --> 10:54.070 We're journalists, and we'd like to see you, because we have people here, 10:54.570 --> 10:57.170 in the North-West, in the Neu-Lavout. 10:57.350 --> 11:00.090 You're not supposed to know that there are several children who have told us about 11:00.090 --> 11:01.390 you, especially about sexual assault. 11:03.130 --> 11:07.930 And so we wanted to have your truth on this, because it's important to have the 11:07.930 --> 11:09.330 truth of what we're talking about. 11:13.650 --> 11:14.790 You don't want to... 11:14.790 --> 11:15.250 No. 11:15.250 --> 11:16.410 You don't want to say a word? 11:17.170 --> 11:17.330 No. 11:18.410 --> 11:22.130 Does the name Marius Tungalik mean anything to you? 11:23.230 --> 11:24.570 I think so, yes. 11:24.570 --> 11:27.610 I don't remember which village it was, but... 11:27.610 --> 11:28.770 Was it this young man? 11:29.410 --> 11:30.210 Does it mean anything to you? 11:31.390 --> 11:34.810 We show him the photo of the young Inuit, Marius Tungalik. 11:35.130 --> 11:35.910 For me, they're all the same. 11:36.930 --> 11:37.510 Oh, yes? 11:39.290 --> 11:43.070 So, this young man, this gentleman, he committed suicide at the age of 55? 11:43.530 --> 11:44.230 No, I didn't know. 11:44.230 --> 11:44.870 You didn't know? 11:45.130 --> 11:45.150 No. 11:45.650 --> 11:50.950 He committed suicide, and in several of his emails, he talks about the sexual 11:50.950 --> 11:52.630 assault he suffered, and he gives your name. 11:52.770 --> 11:55.650 He says it was you who did it. 11:56.290 --> 11:56.990 Marius, no. 11:57.410 --> 11:58.690 Tungalik, this is you. 12:00.390 --> 12:03.270 And this is the arrest warrant. 12:03.710 --> 12:06.850 Do you know that you are under arrest, an arrest warrant in Canada? 12:07.150 --> 12:07.390 No. 12:08.210 --> 12:09.810 Did you report it to the French authorities? 12:10.730 --> 12:11.410 No, I didn't. 12:11.910 --> 12:14.630 So, listen, I'm stopping here. 12:15.550 --> 12:16.730 I'm going to ask you a very simple question. 12:17.070 --> 12:20.210 Have you ever sexually assaulted children? 12:20.550 --> 12:21.630 I'm not answering you. 12:22.050 --> 12:22.710 But why? 12:23.070 --> 12:24.850 Because you're not my confessor. 12:25.230 --> 12:27.050 But you know, sir, the truth will set you free. 12:27.130 --> 12:29.030 Do you know this phrase from the Bible? 12:29.250 --> 12:30.190 Yes, yes, I know it. 12:42.450 --> 12:44.670 And is it an isolated case? 12:46.350 --> 12:48.350 One man may have an explanation. 12:49.870 --> 12:53.990 Back in the United States, we've arranged to meet a former American priest, 12:54.470 --> 12:55.230 Patrick Wall. 12:56.230 --> 13:00.370 Since the 1990s, he has been a close-up witness of pedophile scandal. 13:02.530 --> 13:08.810 Joined the monastery as a very idealistic 20-year-old, and thought I was going to be 13:08.810 --> 13:13.630 a monk, a priest, and unfortunately it didn't work out that way because so many 13:13.630 --> 13:19.610 sex abuse cases came forward that I ended up actually being ordained early to go 13:19.610 --> 13:23.490 work on and follow sex abusers who were being withdrawn. 13:23.930 --> 13:28.450 And at that point, at the age of 32, I had to make a moral decision. 13:29.150 --> 13:31.210 Am I going to support this institution? 13:31.790 --> 13:33.190 You know, am I part of this? 13:33.490 --> 13:35.630 Or do I have to find a different path? 13:35.630 --> 13:40.370 And that's when I chose to take a different path and to help a survivor. 13:40.930 --> 13:44.610 Since then, Patrick Wall has become a whistleblower. 13:45.030 --> 13:49.990 An expert called on to testify in over 2,000 cases of priests accused of sexual 13:49.990 --> 13:50.490 abuse. 13:51.630 --> 13:56.110 According to him, the Catholic Church has developed a system to exfiltrate pedophile 13:56.110 --> 13:56.610 priests. 13:57.910 --> 14:00.570 That's the same pattern we've seen in Australia. 14:01.050 --> 14:04.210 It's the same pattern we've seen in the United States. 14:04.210 --> 14:06.650 It's the same pattern we've seen in Canada. 14:07.210 --> 14:11.210 It's the same pattern in Ireland, in England, in Italy. 14:11.830 --> 14:15.990 It's honestly, it's in the DNA of the Roman Catholic system. 14:16.650 --> 14:18.910 And I like to call this the geographic solution. 14:19.450 --> 14:23.770 So what the bishop needs to do then, he finds out that the priest is a 14:23.770 --> 14:24.330 perpetrator. 14:24.510 --> 14:31.070 And then at that point, he simply moves him to a different spot where the previous 14:31.070 --> 14:32.450 scandal is not known. 14:32.450 --> 14:34.190 And if it's not enough? 14:34.630 --> 14:35.930 You move him outside the country. 14:36.590 --> 14:39.470 That's the geographic solution. 14:39.730 --> 14:43.690 You can move him from continent to continent as long as he can speak the 14:43.690 --> 14:45.130 language that is needed. 14:45.530 --> 14:46.570 It looks legitimate. 14:47.150 --> 14:50.190 And so he's going to be accepted without question. 14:50.730 --> 14:52.390 That's where the danger comes in. 14:52.870 --> 14:57.270 An anonymous source would provide us with proof of the geographical solution 14:57.270 --> 14:58.830 described by Patrick Wall. 15:00.330 --> 15:04.250 One evening, we received dozens of internal documents from the community of 15:04.250 --> 15:04.870 St. John. 15:05.650 --> 15:07.850 500 brothers present throughout the world. 15:09.490 --> 15:11.890 This French community is highly controversial. 15:13.050 --> 15:17.230 It has the highest number of priests found guilty of pedophilia in recent years. 15:17.530 --> 15:18.770 Three since 2012. 15:22.010 --> 15:25.010 And there are thought to have been more cases of sexual abuse. 15:25.310 --> 15:27.130 It's all there in black and white. 15:35.880 --> 15:38.640 As we turn the pages, we get a strange feeling. 15:39.640 --> 15:43.080 The community seems to have become a master in the art of the international 15:43.080 --> 15:46.580 displacement of priests suspected of sexually abusing children. 15:55.590 --> 15:59.850 Among the pile of documents from the community of St. John, one recent letter 15:59.850 --> 16:00.870 draws our attention... 16:03.770 --> 16:06.050 and sends us rushing to the airport. 16:08.490 --> 16:12.770 Here's the letter, signed by a high-ranking church official, this 16:12.770 --> 16:14.290 archbishop from Cameroon. 16:16.430 --> 16:20.530 He wrote to the head of the community of St. John, having decided to exclude from 16:20.530 --> 16:22.770 diocese several St. John priests. 16:23.350 --> 16:24.590 He explained himself. 16:27.850 --> 16:32.450 Reverend Brother, some brothers of St. John got themselves into situations of 16:32.450 --> 16:33.410 extreme gravity. 16:34.170 --> 16:37.070 The brothers in question were about to be hauled in front of the courts, 16:37.510 --> 16:39.770 at a risk of dirtying the image of our church. 16:40.290 --> 16:42.890 I used all my weight to make sure this did not happen. 16:46.490 --> 16:50.370 What had these French priests done to incur the wrath of an archbishop? 16:55.400 --> 16:59.800 In Cameroon, a mostly Catholic country, the community of St. John is an 16:59.800 --> 17:00.360 institution. 17:02.580 --> 17:06.420 The brothers run one of the biggest high schools in Yaoundé, the capital. 17:07.560 --> 17:11.260 But in Berthoua, in the east of the country, the brothers of St. John have 17:11.260 --> 17:11.900 left town. 17:14.100 --> 17:18.500 Until 2014, they oversaw this cathedral, the biggest in the region. 17:22.160 --> 17:27.420 We go to see the archbishop, the one who asked the St. John priests to leave. 17:33.250 --> 17:36.490 Monseigneur Atanga, one of the African representatives of the Vatican. 17:51.890 --> 17:59.730 The brothers in question were about to be hauled in front of the courts, 17:59.890 --> 18:01.590 at a risk of dirtying the image of our church. 18:02.110 --> 18:04.030 I used all my weight to make sure this did not happen. 18:04.550 --> 18:10.150 Did you try to hide the facts so that the image of the church would not be dirty? 18:10.850 --> 18:11.450 No, no, no. 18:11.690 --> 18:12.950 I never hide the facts. 18:13.150 --> 18:13.750 You didn't hide anything. 18:13.890 --> 18:15.150 I don't hide anything. 18:15.390 --> 18:19.070 But what does it mean when you say that they were about to be hauled in front of 18:19.070 --> 18:19.450 the courts... 18:19.450 --> 18:22.490 You should not comment on this letter. 18:22.610 --> 18:25.970 And this letter should not be here. 18:27.710 --> 18:30.350 We try to dig deeper, but... 18:30.350 --> 18:30.810 No, no, no. 18:30.870 --> 18:32.390 I don't comment on the letter. 18:32.530 --> 18:34.950 I didn't say anything about it. 18:35.170 --> 18:35.870 No, no, no. 18:35.890 --> 18:36.890 I don't comment on it. 18:36.990 --> 18:38.950 That's why I said I didn't comment on it. 18:39.050 --> 18:40.130 I'm sorry, but that's how it is. 18:40.410 --> 18:41.150 So, no comment? 18:41.770 --> 18:42.610 No comment. 18:44.390 --> 18:46.350 And you shouldn't have this letter. 18:46.550 --> 18:47.430 I shouldn't have this letter? 18:49.850 --> 18:53.770 Yes, thanks for your precious comments, Your Grace. 18:54.010 --> 18:55.650 But they weren't exactly helpful. 18:57.270 --> 19:01.430 At the Cathedral of Batuah, we'll discover the reasons why the St. John Brothers 19:01.430 --> 19:02.490 hurriedly left town. 19:03.470 --> 19:05.430 Another alleged case of pedophilia. 19:06.830 --> 19:09.230 The sexual abuse of a number of boys. 19:12.480 --> 19:15.580 For three days, we try to find these presumed victims. 19:17.660 --> 19:22.160 In this city, where the Catholic Church is omnipresent, it's hard to broach the 19:22.160 --> 19:22.460 subject. 19:25.970 --> 19:29.770 Finally, we find one of the kids who was supposedly abused by the priest. 19:32.270 --> 19:33.650 Today, he's 15. 19:48.990 --> 19:51.710 If there was a pact with God, it would be in the name of God. 19:52.390 --> 19:55.030 If the men of God are like this, it would be good. 19:56.250 --> 19:57.850 I say, well, there's no problem. 19:59.390 --> 20:02.890 We show him one of the community's internal documents that we managed to 20:02.890 --> 20:03.390 procure. 20:03.810 --> 20:07.010 The mugshots of all the St. John Brothers across the globe. 20:07.850 --> 20:08.670 508 in all. 20:14.450 --> 20:17.010 This priest had indeed been posted in Batuah. 20:18.590 --> 20:19.790 How many times? 20:39.550 --> 20:45.010 A pact of silence? 20:45.310 --> 20:45.590 Yes. 20:47.070 --> 20:50.770 After a few weeks, the boy finally admitted everything to his parents. 20:51.290 --> 20:54.630 They immediately went together to the Batuah law courts to file a complaint. 20:56.030 --> 20:58.270 But here, nobody touches the church. 21:23.470 --> 21:27.430 In Batuah, the justice of men seems to serve men of God. 21:30.130 --> 21:33.770 We have an appointment with a civil servant inside the Ministry of Justice. 21:35.030 --> 21:36.230 We film discreetly. 21:37.830 --> 21:41.670 She confirms the closeness between the church and one of the top judges. 21:47.770 --> 21:53.010 So when the case exploded, the magistrate of the court did everything to act 21:53.010 --> 21:53.610 discreetly. 22:06.850 --> 22:13.570 The civil servant gives us an excerpt from the victim's testimony. 22:15.350 --> 22:16.730 The name of Fr. 22:16.850 --> 22:18.190 Emmanuel appears nowhere. 22:19.070 --> 22:22.850 Instead, he is merely designated as Le Prêtre, the priest. 22:39.630 --> 22:42.730 Before leaving Batuah, we meet another presumed victim. 22:44.390 --> 22:45.990 He too picks out Fr. 22:46.130 --> 22:47.610 Emmanuel from the mugshots. 22:58.800 --> 23:00.260 Where is Fr. 23:00.460 --> 23:04.540 Emmanuel now, the French priest accused of sexually abusing at least two boys? 23:05.920 --> 23:09.580 Among the community's internal documents are the postings made in 2016. 23:12.620 --> 23:15.740 Since being expelled from Batuah in Cameroon, Fr. 23:15.840 --> 23:18.380 Emmanuel appears to be in Bologna, in Italy. 23:35.860 --> 23:38.400 We wait for the father outside the priory. 23:39.940 --> 23:44.100 After a few hours, he finally shows up. 23:44.520 --> 23:47.380 We film discreetly. 24:14.560 --> 24:16.560 I wanted to know what you thought about the rape. 24:16.560 --> 24:18.160 Is it really the case? 24:18.280 --> 24:19.760 Do you recognize these facts or not? 24:25.200 --> 24:28.240 By the bishop on the spot? 24:28.760 --> 24:32.400 For what purpose? 24:35.140 --> 24:38.920 So he asked young people to lie... 24:41.740 --> 24:43.180 So it's a plot? 24:46.300 --> 24:47.560 He used that to... 24:49.100 --> 24:50.320 How do you explain this letter? 24:50.900 --> 24:55.500 From the Archdiocese of Batuah, from Atanga, Joseph Atanga, the famous 24:55.500 --> 24:55.860 archbishop. 24:56.540 --> 24:58.440 The brothers who were being questioned were about to be dragged in front of the 24:58.440 --> 24:59.860 courts, at the risk of ending their lives. 25:00.540 --> 25:01.140 On the spot. 25:01.320 --> 25:03.200 I weighed all my weight so that we wouldn't get there. 25:03.840 --> 25:08.520 How can this archbishop, on the one hand, accuse you, and on the other hand, 25:08.840 --> 25:11.000 weigh all his weight on local justice so that you don't get expelled? 25:12.640 --> 25:13.620 It's quite subtle. 25:13.620 --> 25:15.480 Very subtle indeed. 25:16.380 --> 25:18.120 Children are manipulated by the archbishop. 25:18.820 --> 25:21.360 But Father Emmanuel offers another explanation. 25:44.780 --> 25:48.660 Have you been questioned by the French justice or the French police? 25:49.460 --> 25:51.980 Are you subject to a canonical trial or not at all? 25:52.440 --> 25:52.620 No. 25:52.980 --> 25:55.820 There is no... nothing. 25:56.300 --> 25:57.220 Nothing happened. 25:57.580 --> 25:58.380 Nothing happened. 25:59.020 --> 26:01.900 According to Father Emmanuel, nothing happened. 26:03.100 --> 26:07.000 But why then was he shipped out of Cameroon, when he could have been posted 26:07.000 --> 26:08.700 to another diocese in the country? 26:13.380 --> 26:16.280 In Boulogne, his new superior explains. 26:19.820 --> 26:21.660 He doesn't know we're filming. 26:40.360 --> 26:44.160 We could look at the preventive measures in case... 26:44.160 --> 26:49.860 He is in a situation where, in any case, de facto, it's a shelter, you see. 26:50.900 --> 26:55.200 So the community of Saint John shipped Father Emmanuel off to Boulogne so he 26:55.200 --> 26:57.060 wouldn't be anywhere near any kids. 26:57.900 --> 27:01.580 But when we leave the priory, two posters catch our eye. 27:02.180 --> 27:06.660 Teatro San Salvatore and Teatro, a theatre inside the priory. 27:10.520 --> 27:12.820 It's then that the penny drops. 27:13.700 --> 27:17.260 The community of Saint John is there, at the address number 1. 27:17.780 --> 27:22.360 And right there is Teatro San Salvatore, which specializes in the wake-up theatre 27:22.360 --> 27:27.460 for children aged 6 to 10, 11 to 13, and 14 to 18. 27:28.260 --> 27:31.860 When he tells us that he has nothing to do with children, maybe not in the church, 27:31.980 --> 27:35.040 but at the same address, in the same priory, in the same corridors, 27:35.260 --> 27:36.040 there are children passing by. 27:42.820 --> 27:45.400 When we arrived at Saint John, we had a few questions for the head of the 27:45.400 --> 27:45.820 community. 27:47.060 --> 27:51.360 On the case in Bertoa and Cameroon, but also on the other documents in our 27:51.360 --> 27:51.720 hands. 27:53.700 --> 27:56.560 The Saint John Public Relations Director emailed us. 27:57.940 --> 28:02.720 Dear Sir, We are prudent about the televised press, especially when sensitive 28:02.720 --> 28:03.880 subjects are concerned. 28:04.400 --> 28:07.700 After long reflection, we prefer to decline your request for an interview. 28:08.140 --> 28:11.920 Regarding the departure of the brothers from the cathedral in Bertoa, we had every 28:11.920 --> 28:15.240 reason to believe that these rumors were ungrounded, the same conclusion that the 28:15.240 --> 28:18.960 local police and justice obviously reached, because they pressed no charges 28:18.960 --> 28:20.000 after their investigation. 28:20.960 --> 28:22.940 I send you cordial greetings and my prayers. 28:23.880 --> 28:25.920 Not exactly a satisfactory reply. 28:31.410 --> 28:35.010 So, we check up on the schedule of the head of the community of Saint John. 28:36.890 --> 28:41.310 He is due to fly to Addis Ababa in Ethiopia today from the Charles de Gaulle 28:41.310 --> 28:42.590 airport outside Paris. 28:49.380 --> 28:53.080 We wait for brother Thomas Joachim with a sign to grab his attention. 28:58.050 --> 28:59.010 And it works. 29:15.010 --> 29:17.390 Yes, yes, we wrote to you. 29:23.550 --> 29:30.070 No, no, no, I wrote to you to explain why I would not do an interview directly like 29:30.070 --> 29:30.470 that. 29:32.530 --> 29:32.950 Why? 29:33.150 --> 29:34.030 We gave you the answers in writing. 29:35.550 --> 29:38.930 We gave you the answers in writing, so I think that's enough. 29:39.050 --> 29:41.990 And we explained to you why we didn't want to do an interview like that. 29:41.990 --> 29:43.310 And why don't you want to do an interview like that? 29:43.550 --> 29:44.370 I already explained it to you. 29:44.570 --> 29:45.390 No, but tell me, I'm interested. 29:45.690 --> 29:46.770 No, no, but I wanted to explain and talk. 29:46.810 --> 29:53.990 I would like to ask you questions on the issue of sexual abuse on minors by members 29:53.990 --> 29:54.830 of the community of Saint John. 29:55.110 --> 29:59.770 There are accusations against some of your members in Cameroon, in Berthois. 29:59.870 --> 30:01.790 I have documents here that attest it. 30:02.070 --> 30:05.050 I also have others on which I would also like to have your opinion. 30:05.690 --> 30:11.970 In particular, this is a document from your home, which speaks of a brother who 30:11.970 --> 30:14.910 says that there have been incompatible contacts with girls. 30:15.570 --> 30:17.150 People have been upset in their faith. 30:17.350 --> 30:22.210 Here, it's another brother who says that there is no follow-up in these camps. 30:22.330 --> 30:24.530 I think it's important to know your answers on this. 30:24.530 --> 30:24.850 Of course, it's important. 30:25.390 --> 30:27.650 Can we have an interview on the long term with you? 30:28.250 --> 30:30.270 No, I already explained to you in writing why. 30:31.690 --> 30:34.650 Here, we have one of your brothers who speaks of sexual abuse. 30:36.390 --> 30:39.490 For each of these cases, have you sent a report to the police? 30:46.540 --> 30:50.600 Despite our frequent requests, the community of Saint John refused to 30:50.600 --> 30:51.480 grant us an interview. 30:56.160 --> 31:00.060 During our investigation, we discovered other examples of the international 31:00.060 --> 31:02.420 transfer of priests accused of pedophilia. 31:05.780 --> 31:09.560 We could have chosen to tell you about this priest from Lyon, who after being 31:09.560 --> 31:13.080 accused of sexual abuse by one young teenager, was moved to Guinea. 31:15.220 --> 31:19.460 Or this one, with an international arrest warrant for sexually abusing children in 31:19.460 --> 31:22.560 France hanging over his head, now in refuge in Lebanon. 31:23.700 --> 31:28.320 Or this one, an Italian, wanted for sexually abusing eight boys, transferred 31:28.320 --> 31:29.460 to Mozambique. 31:32.330 --> 31:36.610 At the heart of the Catholic Church, how many cases are there of priests moved 31:36.610 --> 31:40.550 from country to country due to suspicions of sexual abuse on minors? 31:45.160 --> 31:46.800 We tried to add them up. 31:49.860 --> 31:53.620 Over three months, we contacted the main victims' groups around the world. 31:56.180 --> 31:58.940 Each gave us their list of transferred priests. 32:01.760 --> 32:05.540 Then we called whistleblowers, attorneys, 32:09.830 --> 32:15.810 judges, and all cross-checked with local newspaper articles. 32:17.450 --> 32:20.870 We only took into account priests moved since 1990. 32:22.490 --> 32:26.150 There were so many cases, we had to see this on the big screen. 32:27.470 --> 32:30.930 So we booked the biggest panoramic movie theater in Paris. 32:33.510 --> 32:36.470 We compiled all of the data onto a map. 32:38.310 --> 32:40.070 To discover it with us is Fr. 32:40.230 --> 32:40.550 Joulin. 32:45.810 --> 32:48.850 A French clergyman with a unique profile. 32:49.210 --> 32:50.930 He's both a priest and a therapist. 32:51.570 --> 32:55.450 He sees sexual abuse victims, but also the priests accused of it. 32:56.730 --> 33:01.570 That's right, and he's the only French man of the cloth to accept our invitation. 33:37.910 --> 33:39.610 A film by Fr. 33:43.430 --> 33:51.750 Joulin Did you expect so many movements on this map, and so many priests moved or 33:51.750 --> 33:53.490 mutated because of pedophilia? 33:54.970 --> 33:59.330 So many movements, and so many priests mutated... 33:59.330 --> 34:01.550 No, not at all. 34:01.930 --> 34:07.270 It seemed to me to be something from another age, that was happening a century 34:07.270 --> 34:09.430 ago, but that we had kind of let go. 34:10.170 --> 34:11.850 But it doesn't seem to be the case at all. 34:11.930 --> 34:12.750 No, not at all. 34:13.110 --> 34:20.190 Since 1990, we have counted 95 mutations, in quotes, of priests involved in 34:20.190 --> 34:21.150 pedophilia cases. 34:21.150 --> 34:25.830 And yet, we are very far from having access to all the data. 34:26.110 --> 34:29.450 In all, they would have abused 802 victims. 34:30.290 --> 34:32.410 So this figure is also important, very important. 34:32.430 --> 34:32.850 Yes, absolutely. 34:33.610 --> 34:35.250 802 victims could have been avoided. 34:35.970 --> 34:42.550 We have the feeling of dealing with a system of exfiltration of pedophile 34:42.550 --> 34:43.470 priests or suspected of being. 34:44.070 --> 34:47.150 There is a dynamic that is that of moving away. 34:47.150 --> 34:51.650 But here, we are downright in other countries, in other continents. 34:52.210 --> 34:55.890 And there is still this notion, if these people have been recognized as 34:55.890 --> 35:00.490 being pedophiles or being perpetrators of sexual abuse in the countries where they 35:00.490 --> 35:09.490 are from, sending them abroad is completely irresponsible, it is criminal. 35:09.710 --> 35:14.150 So, we are going to talk about very specific cases that we discovered during 35:14.150 --> 35:14.850 this investigation. 35:14.850 --> 35:18.210 The father's case, Nicolas, we are going to discover it together. 35:18.910 --> 35:23.810 Accused of raping deaf children in the 1980s in Italy. 35:24.410 --> 35:30.690 He was never judged, but he was transferred to Argentina where he was 35:30.690 --> 35:34.490 recently arrested for absolutely similar acts. 35:34.810 --> 35:36.330 This time, it was in Mendoza. 35:36.570 --> 35:37.190 It is irresponsible. 35:37.690 --> 35:40.490 They are aware of this problem. 35:40.490 --> 35:47.590 And certainly not by putting him back in a frame where he will be able to repeat the 35:47.590 --> 35:49.330 same crimes he committed in Italy. 35:49.470 --> 35:50.150 What should the Church have done? 35:50.390 --> 35:55.930 There is power in the canonical law to do something, to make this man be removed 35:55.930 --> 35:57.730 from the priesthood. 35:58.090 --> 36:01.990 You are part of the white fathers, the missionaries of Africa. 36:02.350 --> 36:07.070 You will notice that the suspected pedophilia priests have often been 36:07.070 --> 36:09.890 mutated, moved to Africa. 36:10.490 --> 36:13.310 You also say, in South America, mission areas. 36:13.750 --> 36:16.410 And I imagine that somehow it hurts you. 36:16.790 --> 36:20.910 There is still this idea that someone who has been a predator for children, 36:22.130 --> 36:24.710 finally, if he goes to Africa or if he goes to Latin America, it does not matter. 36:25.470 --> 36:26.690 For the children there. 36:27.110 --> 36:28.010 Do you feel shocked? 36:28.430 --> 36:28.910 Yes, yes. 36:29.130 --> 36:32.390 But yes, it is no longer acceptable today. 36:32.950 --> 36:35.610 It's irresponsible, it's immature, it's all we want. 36:35.610 --> 36:38.490 And I think that there is also somewhere, among many evictions or others, 36:39.710 --> 36:44.290 such a disconnection with everything that affects sexuality, humans, others, 36:44.670 --> 36:50.230 that they are not able to feel what can be the violence of a sexual abuse on a child. 36:50.550 --> 36:54.790 The person I accompanied, who told me the latest thing, she had been abused at the 36:54.790 --> 36:56.590 age of 7, she told me at the age of 87. 36:57.350 --> 37:02.310 80 years later, it taught her to be able to dare to speak on these facts. 37:02.570 --> 37:04.450 Because for the Church, the victim is the troublemaker. 37:05.890 --> 37:07.790 It is the one by whom the scandal comes. 37:08.830 --> 37:11.130 There is a deep fear of the scandal. 37:11.610 --> 37:14.070 And so, these victims are children of God. 37:16.450 --> 37:17.330 It's not... 37:18.430 --> 37:19.490 They are not sub-children of God. 37:19.490 --> 37:22.050 They are not sub-children of God, they are not a sub-category. 37:23.510 --> 37:27.770 So, forgiveness would be good for those who have been abused, but mercy not for 37:27.770 --> 37:28.150 the victims. 37:28.230 --> 37:29.530 But what is that? 37:29.530 --> 37:30.170 As a system. 37:30.250 --> 37:31.170 It is a perverse system. 37:32.470 --> 37:34.570 And it is this system that must be changed. 37:34.570 --> 37:36.730 When I told you about the fight, this is where the fight must take place. 37:38.230 --> 37:42.250 As you can imagine, after this interview, our attention turned to the Vatican, 37:42.770 --> 37:46.430 the Holy See, the place where the Church's laws are made. 37:47.350 --> 37:50.990 The place where punishments against pedophile priests are meted out. 37:52.110 --> 37:56.190 But we discovered that even inside the Vatican government, high-ranking officials 37:56.190 --> 37:59.430 have been accused of covering for priests accused of pedophilia. 38:00.450 --> 38:03.890 After several months of discussion, the Vatican chose this priest to answer 38:03.890 --> 38:04.490 our question. 38:05.170 --> 38:08.810 Father Zollner, an advisor to the Pope on sexual abuse issues. 38:09.170 --> 38:13.030 He also sits on the Commission for the Protection of Minors, a body founded by 38:13.030 --> 38:14.710 Pope Francis two years ago. 38:15.730 --> 38:17.550 You have been appointed to this commission. 38:17.910 --> 38:23.050 What has the commission done since then, and do you think it is enough? 38:23.070 --> 38:25.350 We have people from all continents on this commission. 38:25.990 --> 38:31.350 We have experts from different fields, so psychology, psychiatry, law, 38:31.350 --> 38:34.170 international law, social work and theology. 38:34.850 --> 38:41.110 And we try to discuss what can be next steps to help the Pope to set up new 38:41.110 --> 38:45.750 measures to be more incisive in the life of local churches. 38:45.950 --> 38:48.190 And there is still a lot to do, no? 38:48.470 --> 38:52.330 My expression for this is, this is a generational task. 38:52.810 --> 38:55.550 We will not finish within two years or five years. 38:55.550 --> 39:00.390 We will have to work long term, which means 15, 20, maybe 30 years. 39:00.390 --> 39:02.910 I wanted to show you something. 39:03.130 --> 39:08.290 These are the ten cardinals that are usually considered the most powerful of 39:08.290 --> 39:08.670 the Vatican. 39:08.890 --> 39:10.810 This is the C9, right? 39:10.990 --> 39:12.190 It's an advisory board. 39:12.350 --> 39:17.330 Okay, and here, Gerd Müller, prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine and the 39:17.330 --> 39:17.650 Faith. 39:18.170 --> 39:25.690 Among these ten cardinals, four are accused of having covered up pedophile 39:25.690 --> 39:26.310 priests. 39:26.930 --> 39:27.930 You know that, of course. 39:28.070 --> 39:28.330 Sure. 39:30.390 --> 39:33.970 I have no particular knowledge about any of them. 39:35.030 --> 39:37.070 You just said to me that you knew it. 39:37.230 --> 39:41.710 I know that there are allegations, but I don't know what is the background of 39:41.710 --> 39:42.250 these cases. 39:42.590 --> 39:43.810 I am not an investigator. 39:43.950 --> 39:45.850 You want me to be more precise? 39:46.010 --> 39:46.230 Sure. 39:46.650 --> 39:50.150 Okay, George Bell, so he's here in Australia. 39:50.470 --> 39:54.290 A few months ago, in front of the Australian Royal Commission on Sexual 39:54.290 --> 40:01.170 Abuses within the church, he recognized knowing sexual abusers from Australian 40:01.170 --> 40:04.110 priests, but did not denounce them to justice. 40:04.510 --> 40:07.910 So what do you think of him being in the C9 with that story? 40:08.510 --> 40:11.370 I have been to Australia last year. 40:11.530 --> 40:12.490 I have traveled. 40:12.770 --> 40:14.310 I have been in the diocese. 40:15.110 --> 40:20.370 I met with three survivors from the school where Cardinal Pell was at that time, 40:20.510 --> 40:22.650 the vice director of the school. 40:22.650 --> 40:32.210 And Cardinal Pell will engage to cooperate with justice and to cooperate in the sense 40:32.210 --> 40:34.190 of setting up safeguarding measures. 40:34.510 --> 40:37.590 Sure, but when you say he will, this is future. 40:37.930 --> 40:38.270 Yeah, sure. 40:38.410 --> 40:42.890 But he didn't denounce sexual abusers before and he's in the C9. 40:43.050 --> 40:43.790 He admitted that. 40:43.810 --> 40:45.170 Is it shocking for you or not? 40:45.570 --> 40:47.010 Of course it is shocking, yeah. 40:47.010 --> 40:52.410 For him to be in the C9 and not denouncing sexual abusers and minors? 40:53.390 --> 40:53.990 Yeah, sure. 40:55.950 --> 40:58.610 Francisco Errazuriz in Chile, here. 40:59.850 --> 41:07.470 Documents have shown that Errazuriz has waited five years after the first victim 41:07.470 --> 41:11.190 spoke out to take action and to remove the priest, Father Karadima. 41:12.470 --> 41:17.790 And Father Karadima has been since proven guilty by the Vatican of sexual abuses. 41:18.210 --> 41:20.670 He's here, still in the C9. 41:21.770 --> 41:24.070 Yeah, I'm not responsible for the appointments in the C9. 41:24.070 --> 41:24.890 No, but what do you think of it? 41:25.090 --> 41:26.930 I'm not the one who decides on that. 41:27.390 --> 41:28.070 But what do you think? 41:28.670 --> 41:32.030 I think they will stay as long as the Pope wants them there. 41:32.650 --> 41:33.530 Thank you very much. 41:33.830 --> 41:37.410 It seems then that only the Pope has the power to punish his cardinals. 41:37.990 --> 41:40.150 So why doesn't he take stronger action? 41:41.190 --> 41:46.250 Maybe because he, too, faced accusations in his homeland of Argentina long before 41:46.250 --> 41:46.890 his election. 41:49.810 --> 41:54.710 When he was Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he apparently tried to have a pedophile 41:54.710 --> 41:55.590 priest acquitted. 42:03.990 --> 42:06.890 To understand, we took one last flight. 42:10.400 --> 42:13.780 In our baggage, this book of interviews with the Pope. 42:16.180 --> 42:20.380 On page 64, the Pope tackles the question of pedophile priests. 42:23.420 --> 42:27.340 He writes, It never happened in my diocese. 42:28.840 --> 42:30.580 On the Holy Father's word. 42:31.140 --> 42:32.300 But is it the truth? 42:41.370 --> 42:46.590 In Buenos Aires, along with God, or rather Diego Maradona, the Pope is a 42:46.590 --> 42:46.970 star. 42:47.770 --> 42:48.890 His face is everywhere. 42:51.330 --> 42:54.570 And yet, some refuse to share in this iconographic cult. 42:56.490 --> 42:59.610 In the city centre, we have arranged to meet a group of victims. 43:00.570 --> 43:04.030 They were abused by priests in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. 43:09.170 --> 43:12.010 They alerted Pope Francis when he was their Archbishop. 43:23.040 --> 43:25.540 It never happened in my diocese. 43:26.600 --> 43:28.600 He never wants to admit it. 43:28.820 --> 43:29.560 It's a lie. 43:31.670 --> 43:35.480 Who tried to contact Bergoglio? 43:35.880 --> 43:36.700 Who tried? 43:36.920 --> 43:37.920 All of us. 43:40.480 --> 43:43.400 And who got a response? 43:43.800 --> 43:44.460 No one. 43:44.460 --> 43:45.220 No one. 43:47.060 --> 43:53.180 To all the famous people in the world, Leonardo DiCaprio also went to show them 43:53.180 --> 43:53.680 the Oscar. 43:53.920 --> 43:55.840 To all of them, he opens the doors. 43:56.120 --> 44:00.580 And they don't even send us a card to say, I'm very sorry. 44:01.040 --> 44:02.340 I don't expect anything. 44:02.560 --> 44:03.540 I don't believe anything. 44:04.700 --> 44:06.220 And I suffered a lot. 44:07.000 --> 44:07.620 The disappointment. 44:10.020 --> 44:14.340 And it hurt me a lot that Bergoglio didn't do anything. 44:15.980 --> 44:19.720 And everyone told me to write to him because he was going to answer me. 44:20.760 --> 44:22.380 And I suffered, I suffered. 44:22.580 --> 44:23.220 I suffered a lot. 44:23.660 --> 44:24.960 And I'm very disappointed. 44:26.780 --> 44:27.180 That's it. 44:30.240 --> 44:34.660 As Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Pope Francis was seemingly deaf to the 44:34.660 --> 44:35.900 distress of these victims. 44:37.660 --> 44:39.300 But apparently it's worse. 44:39.300 --> 44:43.660 In another case concerning other victims, some believe he willfully tried to divert 44:43.660 --> 44:44.720 the course of justice. 44:46.040 --> 44:47.780 It's the Father Graci case. 44:48.220 --> 44:51.120 The biggest pedophilia scandal in the Argentinian church. 44:52.200 --> 44:55.480 Julio Cesar Graci was one of the best known priests in the country. 44:55.840 --> 44:56.660 Very influential. 44:57.020 --> 44:58.420 And often in the media spotlight. 45:04.080 --> 45:05.660 He ran a huge orphanage. 45:05.660 --> 45:10.340 Until some of the children there lodged a complaint against him for sexual abuse. 45:10.780 --> 45:13.760 In 2009 he was sentenced to 15 years in prison. 45:14.360 --> 45:16.060 Still today he's behind bars. 45:20.200 --> 45:24.020 But the Argentinian church did all in its power to have him acquitted. 45:26.820 --> 45:30.120 Juan Pablo Gallego represented Father Graci's child victims. 45:31.560 --> 45:33.980 A trial spread over 15 years. 45:33.980 --> 45:38.620 And opposite him, the most renowned attorneys in the land, but also the 45:38.620 --> 45:39.380 Catholic church. 45:59.060 --> 46:01.880 Don't be fooled by the cover which makes you think it's a book. 46:01.880 --> 46:08.580 This 2800 page counter-inquiry is a confidential, internal Argentinian church 46:08.580 --> 46:09.440 legal text. 46:11.480 --> 46:16.400 Inside the children are accused of falsifications, lies, deceit and 46:16.400 --> 46:16.880 invention. 46:17.780 --> 46:20.140 Even their own sexual orientation is questioned. 46:22.720 --> 46:24.160 The conclusion is clear. 46:24.580 --> 46:26.320 The court's decision was wrong. 46:27.000 --> 46:29.280 Father Graci had to be acquitted on appeal. 46:31.880 --> 46:33.340 But one paragraph caught our eye. 46:35.160 --> 46:40.200 This work was commissioned in 2010 by the Argentine Episcopal Conference and notably 46:40.200 --> 46:44.860 by its then president, Cardinal Bergoglio, now Pope Francis. 46:48.880 --> 46:53.060 So the Pope did commission a counter-inquiry to try to have a priest 46:53.060 --> 46:55.340 who had been sentenced for pedophilia acquitted. 46:56.960 --> 47:01.480 And it's said that Jose Bergoglio, the future Pope, actually sent it to the 47:01.480 --> 47:01.740 judges. 47:02.520 --> 47:06.640 With a shrewd sense of timing, before Father Graci's various appeal 47:06.640 --> 47:07.020 hearings. 47:08.500 --> 47:12.520 One of the magistrates who received a copy of the counter-inquiry agreed to meet us. 47:15.300 --> 47:19.620 Carlos Mariques, a former appeal court judge and former minister of justice, 47:20.000 --> 47:21.500 is today a high court judge. 47:22.400 --> 47:25.840 It's the first time he's spoken openly about the Graci case. 47:27.240 --> 47:30.960 He remembers very well the day he found this counter-inquiry on his desk. 47:51.500 --> 47:53.660 He has a very partial view of other cases. 47:54.040 --> 47:58.800 He has a clear intention in favor of Father Graci. 47:59.160 --> 48:03.660 Because he wanted to exert a subtle pressure on the judges. 48:04.380 --> 48:06.820 A way of influencing. 48:07.380 --> 48:07.840 Absolutely. 48:08.200 --> 48:08.400 Okay. 48:09.300 --> 48:09.380 Yes. 48:10.280 --> 48:11.500 Subtle, but... 48:14.560 --> 48:16.240 But finally useless. 48:17.080 --> 48:21.400 Father Graci's sentence was upheld at both the appeals court and high court. 48:22.920 --> 48:26.260 At the center of the counter-inquiry commissioned by the Pope when he was 48:26.260 --> 48:31.380 Archbishop of Buenos Aires, is the account of a boy, an orphan, the main victim of 48:31.380 --> 48:31.780 Graci. 48:34.520 --> 48:38.820 Since the case blew up in the early 2000s, it's the first time he's agreed to talk to 48:38.820 --> 48:39.260 a reporter. 48:40.600 --> 48:44.600 He wants to remain anonymous, because he's still afraid of reprisals. 48:46.760 --> 48:49.120 I received a threat, and here's the threat. 48:49.700 --> 48:50.400 It's tangible. 48:50.760 --> 48:53.580 There's a witness, there's this, there's this evidence. 48:54.280 --> 48:56.840 They broke my house, they broke the lock on my house. 48:57.000 --> 49:02.720 They took things, personal things, videotapes or things like that, 49:02.860 --> 49:07.640 that I had, that were things that were for Graci. 49:07.740 --> 49:12.100 What justice decided was that, for me to be safe, for me to be safe, 49:12.800 --> 49:16.260 that I enter the program of a protected witness. 49:16.840 --> 49:19.080 What do you think of these books? 49:19.380 --> 49:23.240 There's only one thing I believe in Graci, it's that sentence. 49:23.680 --> 49:25.060 Bergoglio never let go of my hand. 49:26.000 --> 49:33.220 And I didn't hear if Francisco is still giving him his hand or not, but I didn't 49:33.220 --> 49:35.060 hear the opposite of the Church either. 49:35.360 --> 49:39.460 So I stay with the part that I believe in Graci, that he never let go of his hand. 49:41.620 --> 49:44.800 The Pope has never publicly commented on the Graci case. 49:47.300 --> 49:50.700 For eight months we tried to get an interview with the Holy Father. 49:51.560 --> 49:54.180 Dozens of requests, all refused. 49:57.360 --> 49:59.860 So at the Vatican, we tried to meet His Holiness. 50:01.040 --> 50:04.140 He wants to hold a public audience on St. Peter's Square. 50:05.880 --> 50:10.880 To get anywhere near him, you need to be up very early, and to slip into the long 50:10.880 --> 50:11.920 line of the faithful. 50:19.100 --> 50:20.360 The door is open. 50:21.160 --> 50:24.560 Like at a concert, you have to sprint to the front to get the best places. 50:29.280 --> 50:30.240 Mission accomplished. 50:30.460 --> 50:31.520 We're in the front row. 50:33.260 --> 50:34.280 We split up. 50:34.640 --> 50:37.160 One part of the crew filmed from the Vatican Terrace. 50:43.360 --> 50:48.120 We want to give Pope Francis a letter with all our questions on his supposed role in 50:48.120 --> 50:50.820 the attempt to divert the course of justice in Argentina. 50:59.080 --> 51:00.620 Thousands of people have gathered. 51:02.720 --> 51:05.100 We'll need a miracle to get to talk to the Pope. 51:09.280 --> 51:12.740 A few hours later, the Popemobile arrives. 51:27.670 --> 51:30.390 The third time it passes, we shout. 51:37.240 --> 51:39.200 We manage to give him our letter. 51:44.630 --> 51:47.350 And then, a few minutes later... 51:55.360 --> 51:58.840 In the case of Gracia, the attempt to divert the course of justice in 51:58.840 --> 51:59.360 Argentina... 52:02.170 --> 52:08.540 His Holiness, in the case of Gracia, the attempt to divert the course of 52:08.540 --> 52:09.670 justice in Argentina... 52:12.080 --> 52:16.040 Why did you ask for this study in the case of Gracia? 52:16.920 --> 52:17.820 For nothing. 52:18.480 --> 52:19.360 For nothing? 52:25.380 --> 52:30.720 Despite our quick chat, neither Pope Francis nor any Vatican official has ever 52:30.720 --> 52:31.600 answered our letter. 52:36.500 --> 52:39.420 At the end of this investigation, there's one question. 52:39.960 --> 52:43.220 How can the Catholic Church retrieve itself from these guilty silences? 52:45.320 --> 52:49.280 Clergymen from a number of countries, such as Belgium, the United States, 52:49.400 --> 52:53.760 and the Netherlands, are mobilizing and launching national inquiry commissions on 52:53.760 --> 52:55.320 sexual abuse within the Church. 52:56.380 --> 53:01.080 All victims are listened to, and the spotlight has fallen on the responsibility 53:01.080 --> 53:01.920 of the bishops. 53:02.800 --> 53:04.220 So let us pray. 53:04.980 --> 53:11.120 May the Vatican order a worldwide inquiry commission, so that past scars may be 53:11.120 --> 53:14.600 healed, and we may still have faith in the future. 53:28.860 --> 53:30.260 To be continued...