WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:01.300 The Conference at Marburg. 00:02.340 --> 00:06.380 The Senate of Zurich had positively refused to allow Zwingle to go to Marburg, 00:06.700 --> 00:08.380 lest any harm should befall him. 00:09.320 --> 00:12.780 But he felt that his presence at the Conference was necessary for the welfare 00:12.780 --> 00:14.780 of the Church, and that he must go. 00:15.820 --> 00:20.060 Accordingly he prepared for his journey, and started during the night, with only 00:20.060 --> 00:22.020 one friend to accompany him—Rodolph. 00:23.040 --> 00:24.540 Colin, the Greek professor. 00:25.200 --> 00:29.300 He left the following note for the Senate, If I leave without informing you, 00:29.620 --> 00:33.880 it is not because I despise your authority, most wise lords, but because, 00:34.280 --> 00:38.340 knowing the love you bear towards me, I foresee that your anxiety will oppose my 00:38.340 --> 00:38.680 going. 00:39.460 --> 00:44.240 They arrived safely at Baal, where they were joined by Oecolampadius, and at 00:44.240 --> 00:48.100 Strasbourg, where they were joined by Busser, Hideo, and Stern. 00:48.780 --> 00:53.760 The company reached Marburg on September 29, Luther and his friends on the 30th. 00:53.760 --> 00:59.080 Both parties were courteously received by Philip, and entertained in the castle at 00:59.080 --> 00:59.820 his own table. 01:00.860 --> 01:05.040 The Landgrave, not ignorant of the bitter feelings which the late controversy had 01:05.040 --> 01:09.120 produced between the chiefs of the parties, wisely proposed, that previously 01:09.120 --> 01:13.100 to the public conference, the theologians should have a private interview for the 01:13.100 --> 01:15.860 purpose of paving the way to reconciliation and unity. 01:16.860 --> 01:20.420 Knowing the tempers of the men, he directed Luther to confer with 01:20.420 --> 01:23.200 Oecolampadius, and Melanchthon with Swingle. 01:23.200 --> 01:28.340 But so many accusations as to false doctrine were brought against the Swiss by 01:28.340 --> 01:32.940 the Saxon divines, that little progress was made towards unity, and the main 01:32.940 --> 01:34.560 question became more complicated. 01:35.220 --> 01:39.120 The public disputation was accordingly appointed for the following day, 01:39.460 --> 01:41.360 October 2, 1529. 01:42.100 --> 01:45.880 The general conference was held in an inner apartment of the castle, 01:46.240 --> 01:49.880 in the presence of the Landgrave and his principal ministers, political and 01:49.880 --> 01:55.060 religious, the deputies of Saxony, Zürich, Strasbourg and Ball, and of a few 01:55.060 --> 01:55.860 learned foreigners. 01:56.940 --> 02:01.200 A table was placed for the four theologians Luther, Swingle, Melanchthon, 02:01.520 --> 02:02.780 and Oecolampadius. 02:03.380 --> 02:08.280 As they approached, Luther, taking a piece of chalk, steadily wrote on the velvet 02:08.280 --> 02:13.460 cover of the table, in large letters, Hoc ester corpus mum dash, this is my 02:13.460 --> 02:13.820 body. 02:14.660 --> 02:19.100 He wished to have these words continually before him, that his confidence might not 02:19.100 --> 02:21.940 fail, and that his adversaries might be confounded. 02:22.940 --> 02:27.620 Yes, said he, these are the words of Christ, and from this rock no adversary 02:27.620 --> 02:28.680 shall dislodge me. 02:29.620 --> 02:33.680 All parties having assembled, the chancellor of Hesse opened the conference. 02:34.500 --> 02:38.780 He explained its object, and exhorted the disputants to a Christian moderation, 02:39.240 --> 02:40.820 and the reestablishment of unity. 02:41.480 --> 02:45.640 Then Luther, instead of proceeding at once to the question of the Eucharist, 02:46.020 --> 02:49.620 insisted on a previous understanding concerning other articles of faith, 02:50.020 --> 02:54.240 such as the divinity of Christ, original sin, justification by faith, 02:54.580 --> 02:55.480 etc., etc. 02:56.160 --> 03:00.980 The Saxon divines professed to regard the Swiss as unsound on these and other 03:00.980 --> 03:01.600 subjects. 03:02.320 --> 03:06.540 What Luther's object could be, in seeking to widen the field of debate, 03:06.900 --> 03:10.500 we pretend not to say, but the Swiss replied that their writings bore 03:10.500 --> 03:14.320 sufficient evidence, that on all these points there was no difference between 03:14.320 --> 03:14.620 them. 03:15.580 --> 03:19.560 The landgrave, to whom belonged the direction of the meeting, signified his 03:19.560 --> 03:24.160 assent, and Luther was compelled to give up his project, but he was evidently angry 03:24.160 --> 03:28.680 and ill at ease in his own mind, and said, I protest that I differ from my 03:28.680 --> 03:32.720 adversaries with regard to the doctrine of the Lord's Supper, and that I shall always 03:32.720 --> 03:33.500 differ from them. 03:34.200 --> 03:36.320 Christ said, This is my body. 03:36.960 --> 03:39.740 Let them show me that a body is not a body. 03:40.660 --> 03:45.540 I reject reason, common sense, carnal arguments, and mathematical proofs. 03:46.160 --> 03:47.920 God is above mathematics. 03:48.600 --> 03:52.180 We have the word of God, we must adore and perform it. 03:53.100 --> 03:55.480 Such was the commencement of this celebrated debate. 03:56.340 --> 04:00.120 The impetuous headstrong Saxon, had written his text on the velvet, 04:00.500 --> 04:05.100 and was now pointing to it, and saying, No consideration shall ever induce me to 04:05.100 --> 04:08.820 depart from the literal meaning of these words, and I shall not listen either to 04:08.820 --> 04:11.720 sense or reason, with the words of God before me. 04:12.560 --> 04:16.800 And all this was done and said, be it observed, before the deliberations 04:16.800 --> 04:20.500 were so much as opened, or a single argument had been advanced. 04:21.280 --> 04:25.240 This declaration, coupled with the notorious obstinacy of its author, 04:25.560 --> 04:29.000 was enough to crush every hope of a satisfactory termination to the 04:29.000 --> 04:29.400 conference. 04:30.080 --> 04:35.020 But the Swiss, notwithstanding Luther's high-handed style, did not decline the 04:35.020 --> 04:35.420 argument. 04:36.400 --> 04:40.080 They no doubt knew his measure, cared little for his arrogant assertions, 04:40.300 --> 04:42.480 and probably never counted on his conversion. 04:43.560 --> 04:48.300 It cannot be denied, said Oecholampadius mildly, that there are figures of speech 04:48.300 --> 04:53.300 in the word of God, as John is Elias, the rock was Christ, I am the vine. 04:54.060 --> 04:58.260 Luther admitted that there were figures in the Bible, but he denied that this last 04:58.260 --> 04:59.640 expression was figurative. 05:00.940 --> 05:04.740 Oecholampadius then reminded Luther at the Blessed Lord's says in John 6, 05:05.140 --> 05:08.240 It is the Spirit that quickneth, the flesh profiteth nothing. 05:09.220 --> 05:13.640 Now Christ who said to the people of Capernaum, The flesh profiteth nothing, 05:14.020 --> 05:17.580 rejected by these words, the oral mangication of the body. 05:18.440 --> 05:21.820 Therefore he did not establish it at the institution of the supper. 05:22.480 --> 05:26.920 I deny, retorted Luther vehemently, the second of these propositions. 05:27.780 --> 05:32.040 There was a material eating of Christ's flesh, and there was a spiritual eating of 05:32.040 --> 05:32.200 it. 05:32.920 --> 05:37.580 It was the former, the material eating, of which Christ declared that it profiteth 05:37.580 --> 05:38.000 nothing. 05:39.280 --> 05:42.620 Oecholampadius hinted that this was in effect to surrender the argument. 05:43.320 --> 05:47.540 It admitted that we were to eat spiritually, and if so, we did not eat 05:47.540 --> 05:51.100 bodily, the material mangication being in that case useless. 05:51.700 --> 05:56.160 We are not to ask of what use, replied Luther, everything that God 05:56.160 --> 05:58.020 commands becomes spirit and life. 05:59.000 --> 06:03.640 If it is by the Lord's order that we lift up a straw, in that very action we perform 06:03.640 --> 06:04.660 a spiritual work. 06:05.580 --> 06:09.020 We must pay attention to him who speaks, and not to what he says. 06:09.800 --> 06:12.700 God speaks, then, worms, listen. 06:13.600 --> 06:15.940 God commands, let the world obey. 06:16.520 --> 06:20.180 And let us all fall down together, and humbly kiss the Word. 06:21.120 --> 06:25.200 We may just notice in passing, that there is no ground for supposing that 06:25.200 --> 06:28.140 the question of the Eucharist is referred to in John 6. 06:28.740 --> 06:32.020 It was not even instituted for some time after this. 06:33.200 --> 06:37.920 Incarnation, death, and ascension are the fundamental truths which the Lord is here 06:37.920 --> 06:42.540 unfolding to the Jews, as the only means of eternal life and of all spiritual 06:42.540 --> 06:43.020 blessings. 06:43.960 --> 06:48.340 Himself the eternal life which was with the Father before all worlds, He took 06:48.340 --> 06:52.220 flesh that He might not only reveal the Father, and be the perfect pattern of 06:52.220 --> 06:57.000 obedience as man, but that He might die in grace for us, and settle the question of 06:57.000 --> 07:01.820 sin forever, glorifying God absolutely, and at all cost, on the cross. 07:02.820 --> 07:07.420 Except the corn of wheat, as He Himself taught us, fall into the ground and die, 07:07.720 --> 07:10.700 it abides alone, dying it brings forth much fruit. 07:11.420 --> 07:15.940 His death is not here regarded as an offering to God, as elsewhere often, 07:16.320 --> 07:19.420 but the appropriation of it by the believer into His own being. 07:20.340 --> 07:25.420 He only is life, yet this not in living, but in dying for us, that we might have it 07:25.420 --> 07:29.360 in and with Him, the fruit of His redemption, eternal life as a present 07:29.360 --> 07:34.020 thing but only fully seen in resurrection power, already verified and seen in Him, 07:34.320 --> 07:39.020 ascended up as man, where He was before as God, by and by to be seen in us at the 07:39.020 --> 07:41.420 last day, manifested with Him in glory. 07:42.320 --> 07:47.420 Jesus, therefore, come down to earth, put to death, ascending again to heaven, 07:47.760 --> 07:49.180 is the doctrine of this chapter. 07:49.960 --> 07:54.340 As come down and put to death, He is the food of faith during His absence 07:54.340 --> 07:54.880 on high. 07:55.820 --> 08:00.140 For it is on His death we must feed, in order to dwell spiritually in Him and 08:00.140 --> 08:00.700 He in us. 08:01.460 --> 08:03.100 We now return to Marburg. 08:04.020 --> 08:07.180 Zwingle, just at this moment, interfered in the discussion. 08:07.880 --> 08:11.920 He pressed and greatly troubled the spirit of Luther by his reasoning from the 08:11.920 --> 08:16.980 Scriptures, science, the senses, etc., but he took his stand first on the 08:16.980 --> 08:17.780 ground of Scripture. 08:18.620 --> 08:22.820 After quoting a number of passages in which the sign is described by the very 08:22.820 --> 08:26.600 thing signified, he introduced the argument which had been started by 08:26.600 --> 08:29.920 Oecolampadius in the morning, namely, John 6. 08:30.860 --> 08:35.680 Concluding that, in consideration of our Lord's declaration, the flesh profiteth 08:35.680 --> 08:39.540 nothing, we must explain the words of the Eucharist in a similar manner. 08:40.560 --> 08:45.580 Luther, dash, when Christ says the flesh profiteth nothing, He speaks not of His 08:45.580 --> 08:47.200 own flesh, but of ours. 08:48.200 --> 08:52.380 Zwingle, dash, the soul is fed with the spirit and not with the flesh. 08:53.380 --> 08:58.100 Luther, dash, it is with the mouth that we eat the body, the soul does not eat it, 08:58.100 --> 09:00.240 we eat it spiritually with the soul. 09:01.260 --> 09:05.980 Zwingle, dash, Christ's body is therefore a corporeal nourishment and not a 09:05.980 --> 09:06.340 spiritual. 09:07.260 --> 09:09.760 Luther, dash, you are captious. 09:10.760 --> 09:14.680 Zwingle, dash, not so, but you utter contradictory things. 09:15.760 --> 09:19.940 Luther, dash, if God should present me wild apples, I should eat them 09:19.940 --> 09:20.440 spiritually. 09:21.460 --> 09:26.040 In the Eucharist, the mouth receives the body of Christ and the soul believes His 09:26.040 --> 09:26.400 words. 09:27.100 --> 09:30.800 There was now great confusion and contradiction in the language of Luther, 09:31.260 --> 09:34.740 as if the four words were to be taken neither figuratively nor literally, 09:35.120 --> 09:38.380 and yet he seemed to teach that they were to be taken in both senses. 09:39.420 --> 09:43.360 Zwingle thought that an absurdity had been reached, and that no good could be 09:43.360 --> 09:46.140 attained by proceeding farther in this line of argument. 09:47.200 --> 09:51.220 He maintained from a wider view of the Scriptures, that the bread and wine of the 09:51.220 --> 09:55.720 Holy Eucharist are not the very body and blood of the Lord Jesus, but only the 09:55.720 --> 09:57.600 representatives of that body and blood. 09:58.540 --> 10:01.340 Luther was, however, by no means shaken. 10:02.080 --> 10:06.440 This is my body, he repeated, pointing with his finger to the words written 10:06.440 --> 10:07.080 before him. 10:07.860 --> 10:11.800 This is my body, and the devil himself shall not drive me from that. 10:12.720 --> 10:15.520 To seek to understand it is to fall away from the faith. 10:16.440 --> 10:19.900 But although no favorable impression was produced on the mind of Luther, 10:20.240 --> 10:23.920 many of the hearers were struck by the clearness and simplicity of Zwingle's 10:23.920 --> 10:28.060 arguments, and many minds were opened to the truth on this important subject. 10:29.040 --> 10:33.880 Francis Lambert, the principal theologian of Hesse, who had constantly professed the 10:33.880 --> 10:37.520 Lutheran doctrine of the Eucharist, was amongst the most notable of the 10:37.520 --> 10:37.860 converts. 10:38.660 --> 10:43.120 He was the personal friend and a great admirer of Luther, but conscience moved 10:43.120 --> 10:44.360 him to confess the truth. 10:45.100 --> 10:49.480 When I came to this conference, he said, I desired to be as a sheet of 10:49.480 --> 10:52.720 blank paper on which the finger of God might write His truth. 10:53.340 --> 10:57.700 Now I see it is the Spirit that vivifies, the flesh profiteth nothing. 10:58.700 --> 11:01.200 I believe with Oecolampadius and Zwingle. 11:02.120 --> 11:06.280 The Wittenberg doctors greatly lamented this defection, but turned it off by 11:06.280 --> 11:07.980 exclaiming, Gallic fickleness. 11:09.120 --> 11:14.180 What, replied the ex-Franciscan, formerly of Avignon, was St. Paul fickle 11:14.180 --> 11:18.240 because he was converted from Pharisaism and have we ourselves been fickle in 11:18.240 --> 11:20.160 abandoning the lost sects of potpourri? 11:20.920 --> 11:25.620 Great agitation now prevailed in the hall, but the hour to adjourn had arrived, 11:25.840 --> 11:28.300 and the disputants retired with the prince to dinner. 11:29.120 --> 11:33.780 In the afternoon the conversation was resumed by Luther, who said, I believe 11:33.780 --> 11:37.620 that Christ's body is in heaven, but I also believe that it is in the 11:37.620 --> 11:38.040 sacrament. 11:39.020 --> 11:42.880 It concerns me little whether that be against nature, provided that it is not 11:42.880 --> 11:43.600 against faith. 11:44.420 --> 11:48.420 Christ is substantially in the sacrament, such as He was born of the Virgin. 11:49.960 --> 11:55.840 Ecolampadius, quoting 2 Corinthians 5, 16, said, We know not Jesus Christ after 11:55.840 --> 11:56.400 the flesh. 11:57.160 --> 12:01.600 After the flesh means, said Luther, in this passage, after our carnal 12:01.600 --> 12:02.320 affections. 12:03.020 --> 12:08.020 Then answer me this, Dr. Luther, said Zwingle, Christ ascended into heaven, 12:08.300 --> 12:11.860 and if He is in heaven as regards His body, how can He be in the bread? 12:11.940 --> 12:15.780 The word of God teaches us that He was in all things made like unto His brethren. 12:16.560 --> 12:18.500 Hebrews 2, 17. 12:19.500 --> 12:23.780 He therefore cannot be at the same instant on every one of the thousand altars at 12:23.780 --> 12:25.720 which the Eucharist is being celebrated. 12:26.700 --> 12:30.900 Were I desirous of reasoning thus, replied Luther, I would undertake to prove 12:30.900 --> 12:35.480 that Jesus Christ had a wife, that He had black eyes, and lived in our good country 12:35.480 --> 12:35.980 of Germany. 12:36.940 --> 12:38.680 I care little about mathematics. 12:39.380 --> 12:44.500 There is no question of mathematics here, said Zwingle, but of St. Paul who wrote to 12:44.500 --> 12:49.020 the Philippians, that Christ took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the 12:49.020 --> 12:49.820 likeness of men. 12:50.840 --> 12:54.880 Finding himself in danger of being moved or drawn away from his original position, 12:55.360 --> 13:00.000 he flew back to his four words, exclaiming, Most dear sirs, since my Lord 13:00.000 --> 13:04.940 Jesus Christ says, Hoc est corpus meum, I believe that His body is really there. 13:06.020 --> 13:10.420 Wearied with the inflexible obstinacy and unreasonableness of Luther, Zwingle moved 13:10.420 --> 13:14.880 rapidly towards him, and striking the table, said to him, You maintain then, 13:15.160 --> 13:20.280 doctor, that Christ's body is locally in the Eucharist, for you say, Christ's body 13:20.280 --> 13:21.280 is there there there. 13:21.900 --> 13:23.780 There is an adverb of place. 13:24.800 --> 13:28.320 Christ's body is then of such a nature as to exist in a place. 13:29.300 --> 13:33.240 If it is in a place it is in heaven, whence it follows that it is not in the 13:33.240 --> 13:33.500 bread. 13:34.320 --> 13:38.280 I repeat, replied Luther warmly, that I have nothing to do with 13:38.280 --> 13:39.540 mathematical proofs. 13:40.060 --> 13:44.580 As soon as the words of consecration are pronounced over the bread, the body is 13:44.580 --> 13:47.500 there, however wicked be the priest who pronounces them. 13:48.220 --> 13:49.960 Let the reader note this saying. 13:50.540 --> 13:54.880 It is certainly blasphemy, though not intentionally so by this deluded man. 13:55.840 --> 14:00.320 According to this dogma, the Lord, willing or not willing, must descend into 14:00.320 --> 14:04.660 the idolatrous bread of the priest, however wicked he may be, the moment he 14:04.660 --> 14:06.280 mutters the words of consecration. 14:06.940 --> 14:09.660 This is potpourri in its most daring blasphemy. 14:10.660 --> 14:14.740 The landgrave, perceiving that the discussion was growing hot, proposed a 14:14.740 --> 14:15.520 brief recess. 14:16.220 --> 14:20.880 As reason and fairness are all on one side, there is little interest in watching 14:20.880 --> 14:22.200 the progress of the debate. 14:23.220 --> 14:27.120 Zwingle and Oecolampadius had established their propositions by Scripture, 14:27.520 --> 14:31.960 philosophy, and the testimony of the most ancient fathers, but all were met by the 14:31.960 --> 14:34.300 one unvarying answer, this is my body. 14:34.940 --> 14:39.560 And as if to insult and exasperate the Swiss divines, Luther seized the velvet 14:39.560 --> 14:43.640 cover on which the words hoc est corpus meum were written, pulled it off the 14:43.640 --> 14:48.760 table, held it up before their eyes, saying, See, see, this is our text, 14:49.060 --> 14:53.260 you have not yet driven us from it, as you had boasted, and we care for no 14:53.260 --> 14:54.060 other proofs. 14:54.940 --> 14:58.640 After such an exhibition of weakness and folly, with the assumption of 14:58.640 --> 15:02.940 infallibility, there was no hope of drawing Luther from his hold, and no good 15:02.940 --> 15:04.660 reason for prolonging the conference. 15:05.520 --> 15:10.220 The discussion, however, was resumed the following morning, but at the close of the 15:10.220 --> 15:13.120 day the hostile parties were no nearer a reconciliation. 15:14.360 --> 15:18.660 A severe epidemic, in the form of the sweating sickness, had broken out in 15:18.660 --> 15:22.060 Germany about this time, and had reached Marburg during the conference, 15:22.360 --> 15:24.300 and no doubt hastened its termination. 15:25.100 --> 15:29.640 The ravages of the plague were frightful, all were filled with alarm and anxious to 15:29.640 --> 15:30.260 leave the city. 15:31.300 --> 15:35.960 Sirs, exclaimed the Landgrave, you cannot separate thus, can nothing more 15:35.960 --> 15:40.160 be done to heal the breach must this one point of difference irreconcilably divide 15:40.160 --> 15:43.760 the friends of the Reformation, is there no means, said the Chancellor, 15:44.160 --> 15:48.040 of the theologians coming to an understanding, as the Landgrave so 15:48.040 --> 15:49.220 sincerely desires. 15:50.240 --> 15:54.180 I know of but one means for that, replied Luther, and this it is, 15:54.520 --> 15:56.540 let our adversaries believe as we do. 15:57.420 --> 15:59.260 We cannot, replied the Swiss. 15:59.960 --> 16:04.920 Well then, said Luther, I abandon you to God's judgment, and pray that he will 16:04.920 --> 16:05.620 enlighten you. 16:06.440 --> 16:09.260 We will do the same, added Oecolampadius. 16:10.340 --> 16:14.560 Swingle was silent, motionless, but deeply moved while these words were 16:14.560 --> 16:15.000 passing. 16:16.000 --> 16:21.040 At length his lively affections gave way, and he burst into tears in the presence of all.